Is BD too big for its own good?
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I don't necessarily have any specific complaints about BD right now, but they seem to have gone crazy on expansion in the last few years. While they originally made real gear, hard goods, they're now doing ropes, a ton of clothing, headlamps, backpacks galore etc. |
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SwabianAmi wrote: they're now doing ropesWhere? It's not on their website. |
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Ehhh, it's a business like any other. If the gear that I buy from them meets my expectations that drove me to buy it in the first place, I'm cool with that. If their gear I buy starts turning to junk, I'll stop. I try not to make any attachments to brands beyond the pragmatic price-purpose-quality assessment. |
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20 kN: Not on the market yet but coming soon. Google around for pics from the latest Outdoor Retailer show. |
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Indeed, it is a business whose primary purpose is making money. And of course at the end of the day, product is most important. It rather seems like a sign that they're losing focus. |
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Black diamond was sold to a conglomerate a few years back. The aspects you mentioned were almost inevitable. I can't say I have seen a diminishing emphasis in their innovative adventure equipment yet but it wouldn't be a surprise if it occurs. |
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Didn't realize it been sold like that. Definitely makes more sense now. The question is when they'll be the next North Face whose core market is college girls buying overpriced black fleeces to go with their jeans! |
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SwabianAmi wrote:Didn't realize it been sold like that. Definitely makes more sense now. The question is when they'll be the next North Face whose core market is college girls buying overpriced black fleeces to go with their jeans!It might not have been private equity as I initially claimed in the above post. (So I edited the post) But I remember when it occurred in 2010 and those who knew details of the purchasing company were predicting these outcomes six years ago. Historic discussion here: rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/fo… |
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Thanks. Guess I'm very late to the party. I saw this quote at the link you sent |
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BD was acquired by a public company in 2010 (not a conglomerate or a private equity fund), so if you like you can take a look at their SEC filings and see what they've been up to. BD Investor Relations |
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I swear my first rope was a BD rope, back when I was partying like it was 1999. |
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Michael89 wrote:BD was acquired by a public company in 2010 (not a conglomerate or a private equity fund), so if you like you can take a look at their SEC filings and see what they've been up to.Many people say that facts lead to confusion that can only be cleared up by internet rumors. |
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While there's certainly still room for innovation in climbing hard goods it's going to be very incremental for the most part. People expecting BD (or anyone else for that matter) to blow us out of the water at each OR show are setting themselves up for failure. The market has many quality players all working to tweak or improve on designs so BD is not going to have the market cornered on breakthroughs. Their introductions into different markets are calculated decisions that they can offer something that, while not groundbreaking, offers enough differences to compete in the market and earn sales. |
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Do you buy a new rack of gear every 1-3 years? Most people don't. But they do buy backpacks, jackets, and skis nearly that often. Their clothes are simple and reliable and use some innovative fabrics that others don't. Some of their lightweight action shells are exactly the right weight with the right breathability in the right places for climbing and alpine persuits. If you thought A5 aid gear was good, black diamond is making it now (north face bought it from middendorf then kept the A5 brand for its t shirts and sold the actual gear portion to BD very quietly). |
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The rash of recalls recently has been pretty disheartening. |
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BD isn't even that big. Petzl, also headquartered in SLC, is significantly bigger. Whether you go by turnover, # of employees, depth of product line, whatever, Petzl is still several times larger than BD. |
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The problem with any growing company, in order to compete they need to drive production cost down, thus manufacturing more and more in China and other cheap alternatives. Almost all products BD produces that are not metal are made in china and most of it is junk, especially there ski's. Then only quality products BD makes are made in USA. |
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BD fanboy here. Their pants are the best I've ever had. Don't see why they can't do it all |
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Super Fluke wrote:The problem with any growing company, in order to compete they need to drive production cost down, thus manufacturing more and more in China and other cheap alternatives. Almost all products BD produces that are not metal are made in china and most of it is junk, especially there ski's. Then only quality products BD makes are made in USA.Seeing as BD has been manufacturing EVERYTHING in China for nearly a decade your post makes absolutely no sense. They only brought manufacturing back to the USA literally a couple of months ago. |
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SwabianAmi wrote:I don't necessarily have any specific complaints about BD right now, but they seem to have gone crazy on expansion in the last few years. While they originally made real gear, hard goods, they're now doing ropes, a ton of clothing, headlamps, backpacks galore etc.This is nothing new for BD and certainly not just the last few years or a result of their being acquired. Have you forgotten the history of the company? Before they became BD they were Chouinard Equipment. That company created a clothing line and eventually spun it off into a little brand called Patagonia. Their canvas "Stand Up Shorts" were a staple in Yosemite in 1980. I was wearing Chouinard rugby shirts with my Sears white painters pants in 1978. I bought Chouinard branded ropes in the 1980's. They also sold Beal ropes. Bought one from them in 2004. I have a Chouinard/BD pack from the mid 90's lurking somewhere in my basement. I think I recall the first BD headlamp sometime in the early 2000's. |