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Mountain Home (Leavenworth) Area description


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Vanessa Kroeker · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 3

Can someone (Peter Franzen?) please make an edit to the Mountain Home (Leavenworth) Area description? The rest day line states:

"Rest days include whitewater kayaking and rafting, oggling tourist chicks ..."

I know that it's the norm to refer to/view women as objects, but it would be nice if it wasn't so overtly stated in the description of a rock climbing area. There are plenty of ways to change this language so that it isn't singling out women as objects. Leaving gender out of it, for example.

Thanks for taking this into consideration. I feel a bit ridiculous requesting it, but then again, I feel ridiculous about the fact that I should even have to.

Nick Sweeney · · Spokane, WA · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 650
IJMayer · · Bellingham, WA · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 90

Bump!

Vanessa Kroeker · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 3

Thanks Nick! Didn't notice that.

Josh Janes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2001 · Points: 8,508

Done.

Vanessa Kroeker · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 3

Thank you Josh!

Eric Thompson · · Mountlake Terrace wa · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 125

The Problem With Political Correctness
Feb 25, 2013 | Updated Apr 27, 2013
BJ Gallagher Best-selling author, speaker, and human relations expert.
Mom was wrong when she taught me, “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.” Names do hurt — names can shame, ridicule, and humiliate. Some pertain to race or gender; others refer to weight, facial features, or a particular part of one’s anatomy. Names that refer to social class or what part of the country you’re from can be hurtful, as can names that involve age, religion, or physical ability. Even slang names for certain occupations can be hurtful. Certainly, no one likes to be called a name that is disrespectful, unkind, or downright mean.

But there is another category of name-calling that is also hurtful and destructive: names such as “racist,” “sexist,” “homophobe,” “anti-Semite,” “bigot,” and the like. Yet many throw these labels around at the drop of a hat, without understanding what the labels actually mean — not to mention the damage done by accusing someone of racism, sexism, etc. The accusation alone — even without merit — can be enough to besmirch a reputation, kill a career, and/or be used to invalidate a lifetime of good work.

Let’s consider the definition of racism: “a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial difference produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.” How about the definition of sexism: “prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially: discrimination against women.” And let’s see who is a bigot: “a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.”

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I wonder, do the TV talking heads understand the true definition of the labels they hurl at public figures: “racist,” “sexist,” “bigoted,” or worse — based on nothing more than a comment taken out of context, someone’s clumsy attempt at humor, or a photo or image that’s the artistic expression of a creative person?

How many of us understand these definitions when we call someone a racist or sexist jerk? Jerk, perhaps... but racist or sexist? Perhaps... perhaps not. Do we really understand the seriousness of those labels? Or, are we simply indulging in destructive name-calling based on political correctness?

My point is that the political correctness movement has gone way too far. While the original intent of political correctness may have been good (to encourage tact and sensitivity to others’ feelings around issues of gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, physical abilities, and such), the effect of political correctness has been to make everyone avoid these topics altogether — thereby hindering our ability to get comfortable in living and working with those who are different from us. It’s gone so far that political correctness has become a bigger problem than the problem it was intended to address!

It’s gotten so bad that a liberal professor friend of mine says that she thinks the whole political correctness movement was invented by the Far Right to inhibit any meaningful discussion of diversity issues in order to keep racial, gender, and other barriers in place. Wow. Could my cynical (dare I say paranoid) friend be right?

It doesn’t really matter whether the PC Police come from the Right or the Left; the result is the same. These days everyone is so afraid of being called “sexist” or “racist” or “anti-Semitic” or some other career-killing label, that we all tiptoe carefully around diversity issues, and avoid them altogether if we possibly can.

But the question is: How are we ever going to be able to live and work together more comfortably if there’s a whole herd of elephants in the room? If we can’t talk about our feelings, fears, aspirations, anxieties, assumptions, hopes, worries, dreams, and concerns, how can we ever build trust with those who are different from us? If we can’t talk about differences that puzzle us, or things we’re curious about, without fear of giving offense, then how can we ever overcome our ignorance about cultures and races — or even the opposite sex?

If we must constantly self-censor any conversation pertaining to race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or physical ability, then we are doomed to perpetuate the very barriers we say we want to overcome.

To those who serve in today’s PC Police, I understand that your intentions are good. But there is often a big gap between intent and impact. I would invite you to consider the impact of your censorship and finger-wagging, as well as your inclination to self-righteous, moral indignation. You don’t realize it, but you’re effectively throwing a wet blanket over public (and private) discussions of vitally important issues. You’ve gone too far in your efforts to protect everyone’s feelings. You’re essentially imposing a gag order on the whole of American society, and in so doing, you’re hindering our progress in getting to know one another and to understand others’ different perspectives, viewpoints, feelings, and life experiences.

Lighten up, please. Resign from the PC Police. Give us all a break

Anthony Lubetski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 25

Eric, why I think PC police are needed. We're dudes, I'm white. I don't know that you are but for example's sake, let's say you are a white dude too. When was the last time you experienced sexism? Racism? Discrimination because of your outward appearance in general? Probably rarely, if ever. That's why we don't get to decide what's ";politically correct"; or not. It's much more than that. People are really victims here. I don't go rock climbing to oogle chicks... And Ive worked security at a university housing and have seen what some dudes consider ";oogling chicks"; and it ain't pretty. And while most of us can control ourselves while ";oogling chicks (which i still think is dumb and unnecessary for a guide book)";, it's the few idiots that can't and feel the need to catcall or worse that really makes the PC police necessary. Sorry if the PC make your life a bit more inconvenient. Hope this made a little sense.

Mike Brady · · Van Diesel, OR · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 681

Did you know that there are 2 million battered chicks in the US?!?

And this whole time I have been eating them raw!!!

Eli Staggs · · Olympia, WA · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 5

Well put Anthony.

Vanessa Kroeker · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 3

Yes, well said Anthony. Thanks for that.

Eric Thompson · · Mountlake Terrace wa · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 125
AnthonyLubetski wrote:Eric, why I think PC police are needed. We're dudes, I'm white. I don't know that you are but for example's sake, let's say you are a white dude too. When was the last time you experienced sexism? Racism? Discrimination because of your outward appearance in general? Probably rarely, if ever. That's why we don't get to decide what's ";politically correct"; or not. It's much more than that. People are really victims here. I don't go rock climbing to oogle chicks... And Ive worked security at a university housing and have seen what some dudes consider ";oogling chicks"; and it ain't pretty. And while most of us can control ourselves while ";oogling chicks (which i still think is dumb and unnecessary for a guide book)";, it's the few idiots that can't and feel the need to catcall or worse that really makes the PC police necessary. Sorry if the PC make your life a bit more inconvenient. Hope this made a little sense.
https://www.mountainproject.com/v/missing-two-2--last-seen-at-base-of-aires-in-index-with-red-headed-brothers/112107465
astrov · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 0

How about this?

"Rest days include whitewater kayaking and rafting, ogling tourists , guzzling brews on a sunny terrace in town, or hiking into the Enchantments, one of the most amazing alpine environments around."

If ogling in general is offensive, I just don't know what to say.

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180

Interesting that someone signs up just to complain about a site they have never contributed to.

caribouman1052 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 5

Meh. Reasonable reaction, change area description, move on.

Anthony Lubetski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 25
caribouman1052 wrote:Meh. Reasonable reaction, change area description, move on.
My thoughts exactly.
Ashort · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 35

I don't go rock climbing to oogle chicks... /quote>

Of course not, that is what rest days are for....it said so right there in the description.

Anyway, I agree, change chicks to tourists, or if you prefer....sub-humans

clint helander · · anchorage, alaska · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 613
Ray Pinpillage wrote:Interesting that someone signs up just to complain about a site they have never contributed to.
Agreed.

Everybody is looking for something to be offended by these days.
LindsayH · · Kingston, NY · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 55
"If we must constantly self-censor any conversation pertaining to race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or physical ability, then we are doomed to perpetuate the very barriers we say we want to overcome.

To those who serve in today’s PC Police, I understand that your intentions are good. But there is often a big gap between intent and impact. I would invite you to consider the impact of your censorship and finger-wagging, as well as your inclination to self-righteous, moral indignation. You don’t realize it, but you’re effectively throwing a wet blanket over public (and private) discussions of vitally important issues. You’ve gone too far in your efforts to protect everyone’s feelings. You’re essentially imposing a gag order on the whole of American society, and in so doing, you’re hindering our progress in getting to know one another and to understand others’ different perspectives, viewpoints, feelings, and life experiences.

Lighten up, please. Resign from the PC Police. Give us all a break"


Vanessa isn't trying to police a conversation about gender. She's not stifling a discussion about important issues. She asked for an edit of the description of a rock climbing area. An edit that in no way changes the core information being provided. What's the impact? Removing those few words doesn't detract from the page or lessen anyone's experience in reading it. But leaving it in could potentially offend a significant portion of the people reading that page and just goes to reinforce the notion that climbing is still a "boys club."
Jon Nelson · · Bellingham, WA · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 4,675

I think it's great that Vanessa pointed this out.

Contrary to what some others are saying, this isn't about being "PC", it's about not writing for the sex-obsessed 6th grade males. It just looked dumb.

That whole page is gone now anyway. I realized it was a remnant page that didn't belong there anymore. At one time, all the areas near Leavenworth were grouped into that one "Leavenworth" page as the main area page. Now they are split into more localized areas like Icicle, Tumwater, and the Stuart-Enchantments.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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