Noob Anchor Question


Original Post
t.farrell · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 60

I am pretty new to climbing and my only anchor experience comes from what I've read in books. I'm wondering if this anchor would be a viable option for a three piece anchor. It's basically an equalette with bunny ears instead of the overhand stoppers. Not sure if this is already in use. As I said, my only experience comes from books which mostly stick to sliding x, cordalette, and equalette.

Maybe I'm just building my equalettes incorrectly, but when I was practicing with them, it seemed that if one piece of pro blew, then most of the times the load would be transferred to just one piece of pro. This double bunny ear anchor was my attempt to have the load transferred to two equalized pieces instead of one with a backup.

First equalize left and middle piece (with one loop from each side of the master point), then the middle and left. Once everything is clipped adjust until the load's equalized by the outer two pieces. If one piece blows, then the load transfers to the other two pieces. I've set up my anchor pieces in a few different configurations and so far it seems to work for most of them.

So yeah, is this a good option or is there something I'm missing? Or does it exist already and I just haven't heard of it?

Anchor?

Ryan Nevius · · Estes Park, Colorado · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 904

It's a perfectly fine option...but in the real world, a standard 3-piece anchor with the cordelette tied to a masterpoint is arguably a better option.

Abram Herman · · Golden, CO · Joined May 2009 · Points: 20

There's nothing really wrong with it in my opinion, but it seems a little unnecessary and time-consuming when a simple figure eight on a bight will do. If you're worried about a piece actually blowing, it probably shouldn't be part of your anchor. The point is redundancy, not equalization. You should have three pieces that could each act as an anchor on their own, and by having three of them you have a redundant anchor. If you feel like you need to equalize the pieces to have a strong enough anchor, they're probably not very good pieces.

I guess if you find yourself in that rare situation where you don't have enough good placements to build an anchor with three bomber pieces, maybe your method would be helpful. I don't think I've ever found myself in that situation in 7+ years of climbing trad, where it was bad enough that I was truly worried about the anchor blowing without some kind of self-equalizing setup.

JohnReg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 15

Looks complicated. Also, equalization is not usually possible in most real-world scenarios for a number of reasons. But the one that stands our for me as often in play when I build anchors outside is that the shortest leg will bear the most force. This applies to the middle leg of your example I believe.

http://beverlymountainguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Multi_point-pre_equalized-anchors.pdf

Rick Blair · · Denver · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 268

Leave one of the middle loops off so you can attach your water bottle. I also recommend using clove hitches on your biners to your anchor points if you are not doing that already. The equalette load shares 2 pieces, a third piece not as much,

climberboy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 10

Looks like a quad that's split to 3 anchors instead of the normal two. Like the others have said, I don't see anything wrong with it, but I would think a normal figure 8 aster point would be faster to set up and clean.

Seth Jones · · New Lenox, IL · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 25

Just tie a master point. Why is everyone questioning anchors lately? Have there been some catastrophic anchor failures recently that I haven't heard about?

The only time I use anything self-equalizing is if I have 2 crappy pieces close together, in which case I will use a sliding x to connect them and treat them as one but I still connect that leg to a master point with at least 1 more bomber piece of gear. If you don't have at least 1 bomber piece, maybe look for another place to build your anchor?

Edit: And if I use a sliding x, I make sure it can't extend much if either questionable piece blows. To me, allowing for little to no extension is much more important than equalization.

t.farrell · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 60

This one is dynamically equalizing. In theory, two legs are going to get 50% of the force and the other leg is a backup with minimal extension.

And I do realize there are plenty of other ways to anchor and that is isn't totally practical. I was just looking for a solution to my main problem with the equalette. So maybe imagine yourself in a scenario where you'd be using an equalette? I'm thinking mostly of times when you're not 100% certain of direction of fall (which I'm usually not as a noob).

Parker Wrozek · · Denver, CO · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 83

Good troll post.

Brian L. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 90

Since you've admitted to it: get more experience actually climbing. Really. you'll have a much better understanding of what you actually NEED.

Climb with a knowledgeable partner, or hire a certified guide to teach you.

There might be some small nitpicky things I'd change with your setup, but really I just wouldn't use it in the first place. It doesn't offer any real advantage over a standard masterpoint. The "self equalizing" aspect is very overblown. You should be as confident as possible that each piece of your anchor can take the full load of the fall. Triple redundancy then basically makes failure as improbable as any other random accident you might have in life.

It also fails in being expedient, and efficient (time consuming to tie those knot's, and equalize them. Need's an extra locking biner (same as any equalette))

IF you can't get 3 good pieces, then you may consider equalization. But like Seth said, that's only to link 2 pieces thus making one "placement". And you should always have 1 placement you are confident in, or you should consider relocating.

t.farrell wrote:i'm thinking mostly of times when you're not 100% certain of direction of fall (which I'm usually not as a noob).
"I sense a great deal of confusion in you Young Skywalker. There is much fear that clouds your judgment."

There is no "100% certain" in climbing. Climbing is dangerous and you do the best you can. If you decide you require that to continue, then you might as well stop now.

So in short: the solution to your main problem to the equalette is don't use an equalette :)
t.farrell · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 60

I was thinking that until I'm a veteran at placing pro it's probably better to be safe than sorry. As Brian mentioned, lots of fear and no experience.

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,005
t.farrell wrote:This one is dynamically equalizing. In theory, two legs are going to get 50% of the force and the other leg is a backup with minimal extension.
just out of curiosity, which 2 legs do you think are going to get 50% (each) of the force, and which leg do you think will have minimal force?
BigFeet · · Texas · Joined May 2014 · Points: 380
t.farrell wrote:...it's probably better to be safe than sorry....
Good enough. Better than good. Best is achievable which is to repeat what other posters have mentioned... get someone to show you the why of what you are doing. You will obtain much more from this approach.

The reading of books and contemplating concepts here on this forum should be to help enrich your knowledge base.

Have fun climbing and stay safe!
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Seth Jones wrote:Just tie a master point. Why is everyone questioning anchors lately? Have there been some catastrophic anchor failures recently that I haven't heard about?
Don't you know? Anchors are death traps man! And we're creating these killing machines every damned time we climb.
BigFeet · · Texas · Joined May 2014 · Points: 380
Marc801 wrote: ...Anchors are death traps man!
Well, they can be death to someone's patience maybe - depending on who is building it.
Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 190
t.farrell wrote:I was thinking that until I'm a veteran at placing pro it's probably better to be safe than sorry. As Brian mentioned, lots of fear and no experience.
Ok, this is something you need to get over, because that type of thinking is going to get you killed. No amount of fancy rigging will adequately compensate for poor primary placements, and you're not making yourself any safer by rigging an overly complicated dynamically equalizing anchor. Climb with experienced people who can check your placements and focus on rigging solid, redundant, non-extending anchors (figure 8 being the simplest and most reliable).
Ryan Nevius · · Estes Park, Colorado · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 904

And look what made it onto the Rock and Ice Facebook page today: rockandice.com/master-class...

Morgan Patterson · · CT · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,712

gonna call troll folks

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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