Why Don't Five Ten Shoes Ever Go on Sale?


Original Post
Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 45

I thought I was going crazy, as I was eyeing a few models and waiting for one of the ridiculous gear express/mountain gear/camp mor/Sierra trading post sales, but every time they'd run a sale, everything BUT Five Ten shoes would go on sale. I stopped by Moosejaw when I saw they were advertising a 20% off "everything" sale, but it turns out that Five Ten were excluded! (The salesman was awesome and gave it to me anyways...yay new Pinks!).

Apparently, the company has a policy against sales, arguing that it is better for the brand (and, perhaps, more stable revenue?) to not do sales (they do have a clearance section on their website, but it's a pretty paltry selection of weird sized discontinued shoes). They're also not alone...Canada Goose does the same thing. Obviously, they're doing fine so the lack of sales revenue isn't killing them, but it's a bit of an odd policy. Considering their tendency to discontinue popular shoes, it's almost like they are saying to consumers "Ok, how badly do you really want us?" Is this an established market strategy? Considering the cult-like following the brand has (I'm pretty sure nobody likes their climbing shoes as much as Moccasym or Blanco users), it seems to be oddly effective, if counterintuitive.

Van Doan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0

You missed the Friends and Family 50% off last week? Damn. That's the one time a year to load up

Dylan Pike · · SLC, UT · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 5

Watch those closeouts. You can find good shoes on there.

Ryan U. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 25

Well I hate to rub it in but in Redlands, CA we have a Five Ten outlet store that usually has open box shoes for sale. Last time I was there I was eye balling some Anasazi VCS for $60. I don't understand what "open box" means but the rubber and shoes seem new. The box with mismatched shoes priced at $5 a shoe is pretty cool too.

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 45

Probably early returns. People order shoes online, try 'em on, then return if they don't fit. And yeah...five ten outlet sounds pretty amazing.

JohnSol · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 0

Pretty typical in the ski industry, retailers are contractually bound to not lower prices until a given date. Lower price implies a cheaper product in simpleton consumer minds. Just ask a fancy jeweler, they hikes prices because if it is expensive it must be good quality right?

Ryan U. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 25
JohnSol wrote:Pretty typical in the ski industry, retailers are contractually bound to not lower prices until a given date. Lower price implies a cheaper product in simpleton consumer minds. Just ask a fancy jeweler, they hikes prices because if it is expensive it must be good quality right?
On a plane from from Tampa to Denver, I sat next to a 12 year old who gave me business advice that his mom gave him. "Never under sell your product. Charging more creates more value to the consumer. Not only will the consumer think you are high end but they will be more than happy to pay for it. Not to mention that you don't have to sell as much."

His mom was a website developer who owned a house on the beach in Miami. When I asked if she was as good as her prices, he answered, "no but the customers don't know that."

6 years later and I see his advice in play ALL the time.
Its Isaac · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 0

Because then they'd be Five9.99

Michael89 Wolff · · Long Island City, NY · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 0
ItsIsaac wrote:Because then they'd be Five9.99
Or would it be Five9+, and therefore more expensive?
SteveSchultz · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 2,525

Nearly every single established brand in the outdoor industry has a policy intended to help protect independent, specialty retailers. This helps limit the typical "go online and find it cheaper" mentality and encourages consumers to go into a physical store and support a local business owner.

BryanV Vernetson · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 0

When Adidas bought Five Ten a few years ago they decided to take all off price business in house so pretty much all closeouts or discontinued product is sold through Five Ten's website or their headquarters in Redland. Five Ten also has a MAP policy which restricts the sale of their product where it is less than the MSRP before certain break dates or certain time frames throughout the year (Petzl, Sportiva, BD, etc. all have similar policies). With that being said I don't think Five Ten's strategy is working very well for climbing shoes because the market has left them behind. Sportiva, Scarpa, Evolv and even Mad Rock have taken over market share and are ahead of Five Ten. They still make a good shoe, but have fallen behind when it comes to market share in climbing shoes. By comparison their mountain bike shoes are killing it.

Dom · · New Brunswick Canada · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 1,075
BryanV wrote: Sportiva, Scarpa, Evolv and even Mad Rock have taken over market share and are ahead of Five Ten. They still make a good shoe, but have fallen behind when it comes to market share in climbing shoes. By comparison their mountain bike shoes are killing it.
Where would one see data about said market share?
I'm not disputing your statement - simply curious.

I've had a number of shoes from different brands and I still think 5.10 is the best.
The Blancos have to be the best edging shoes out there. My $ 0.02 anyways.
BryanV Vernetson · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 0
Dom wrote: Where would one see data about said market share? I'm not disputing your statement - simply curious.
Good question. I work in the outdoor industry so I have access to outdoor industry retail sales reports. Data reports like Sports One Source, OIA retail sales reports, GOA, etc. all have Sportiva with something like 65%+ market share, Scarpa and Evolv splitting second place and every other brand with less than 10% of the market share.
SteveSchultz · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 2,525
Dom wrote: Where would one see data about said market share? I'm not disputing your statement - simply curious. I've had a number of shoes from different brands and I still think 5.10 is the best. The Blancos have to be the best edging shoes out there. My $ 0.02 anyways.
There's very little public data available, but many companies can purchase that information from Leisure Trends or similar companies. That said, market share means very little from a "climber who wants the best shoes" perspective. That data is heavily skewed towards lower end, recreational shoes since those are the shoes that sell the most at full retail. Evolv and Mad Rock built their brands on such shoes. Sportiva, Five Ten and Scarpa tend to skew towards a higher price point, higher quality shoe.
Redyns · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 0

can you provide the data reports for those of us who geek out over financials and statistics, more so than anchor technique, the proper foot position while belaying, and opinions about the best 5.9 for your "buddy's girl who's tagging along".

BryanV Vernetson · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 0

I'd like to but the data Steve and I have mentioned is private and paid for by retailers and brands in the industry. It's like a private company vs. public company financial reports. Sorry. What I would say is watch out for Butora. That brand has some good shoes and tech and they climb really well. Hopefully they keep growing and take on the US market.

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 45

Does market share just include units sold, or does it consider profit margins as well? It might not be a accurate to say that the strategy isn't working for 5.10 if their goal isn't market share. If they're getting higher returns they could still be profitable even with smaller volume, which seems to be their approach. I'm surprised the numbers are that low, though, as I do see quite a few people with Moccs and they seem to have a lot of endorsement deals, although they are losing some (Steph Davis went to Evolv).

OAW King · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35

Ummmm..... This is pretty on sale to me!

http://www.fiveten.com/us/closeouts

Matt

Redyns · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 0

f*ck yeah! copped some stonelands!

BryanV Vernetson · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 0
Ted Pinson wrote:Does market share just include units sold, or does it consider profit margins as well? It might not be a accurate to say that the strategy isn't working for 5.10 if their goal isn't market share. If they're getting higher returns they could still be profitable even with smaller volume, which seems to be their approach. I'm surprised the numbers are that low, though, as I do see quite a few people with Moccs and they seem to have a lot of endorsement deals, although they are losing some (Steph Davis went to Evolv).
You can look at the data a lot of different ways, but in units and dollars (profit isn't in these reports and doesn't matter when looking at market share) Five Ten is not performing well. With that being said they have a lot of atheltes although I am not sure that really matters because all of these brands have athletes. Five Ten might be succeeding in whatever their business plan is (profit vs. market share???), but in market share alone, for units sold and total revenue, they are not. Basically what I am trying to communicate is if you put 10 climbing shoes on a wall 5-6 are Sportiva, 3-4 are Evolv/Scarpa and the remaining 1 is Five Ten, Mad Rock, Butora, or Boreal, etc. Make sense?

The more interesting thing is that they are over performing in their adventure footwear (bike outdoor, etc.) and killing it in regard to market share so that is probably more relevant when talking about being profitability. Climbing shoes aren't profitable in general!
Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 45
OAW wrote:Ummmm..... This is pretty on sale to me! fiveten.com/us/closeouts Matt
I mentioned that sale in the original post.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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