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Oops, ripped the pitch.


Original Post
20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,348

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bm4E-cAALw

Alright, let's hear it MPers.

Here is the rock and ice version: rockandice.com/weekend-whip…

StatJuan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

belayer lets go of the rope to brace her fall and the rope still catches her.

patto · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 25

Looks like the gri gri did the catching...

She was lucky in MANY ways. Without a helmet (or even with one) it could have turned out much worse.

patto · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 25
20 kN wrote:Alright, let's hear it MP experts. What did she do wrong? Was her shirt too heavy, causing too much force on the piece? Lack of a helmet dident give her the motivation to send? Piece extended with a 2' sling instead of a 1' sling? Tell me!
20kN have you resorted to TROLLING now! :-p

Having Fun on Gemini Crack

-For starters the first piece got pulled before tension even reached the belayer. Here foot snagged the other side of the rope and effectively did a factor 1 fall onto the first piece. Though may have failed anyway due to the flared placement.
-The second piece seems pretty damn flared even from the video.

Flares and slick parallel crack are dangers often underestimated by climber who are used to just plugging cams and trusting them. Its not complicated. Cams hold if placed properly in good rock.
patto · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 25

I took a similar length fall last year flipping upside down and breaking two ribs. My precariously positioned feet caught the rope on the way down so I flipped.

Distorted 00 Master Cam that held a 20foot fall
The Master Cam has been kept as a momento. It no longer functions due to the broken spring stop, but it did its job.

The wire loop and the sling have permanent kinks in them. (All to be expected from a decent fall on small gear. Cudos to Metolius for good gear)
20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,348
patto wrote: 20kN have you resorted to TROLLING now! :-p
Of course not, that would be fun and I am not allowed to have fun.

I agree that slick rock is a major problem. I've seen placements that appeared good enough to be in the Camalot user manual that have failed on small falls because the lobes just never caught. What's worse is often these cam placements will hold bodyweight, they will seem solid when you tug on them, but fall on them and it's like there was nothing even there. That's a difficult risk to access because the placement visually appears perfect using all conventional wisdom and training, yet the placement can be catastrophically weak.

Curious why she used so much small gear. By the looks of the photo it seems like you could plug 2s and 1s for a portion of it.
patto · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 25
20 kN wrote: Of course not, that would be fun and I am not allowed to have fun.
Yes, you need to be old and wise and keep those noobs in line with sage advice. ;)

20 kN wrote:I agree that slick rock is a major problem. I've seen placements that appeared good enough to be in the Camalot user manual that have failed on small falls because the lobes just never caught.
At Araps where I climb the rock is super hard and usually quite grippy. But there are a couple of cracks renowned for spitting out cams because the are very polished inside. On climbs like this is exactly where BD cams might rip when Masters or Totems might hold. But either way its best to treat it with caution.

20 kN wrote:Curious why she used so much small gear. By the looks of the photo it seems like you could plug 2s and 1s for a portion of it.
Are you basing that comment off my picture? She was climbing the left crack which seems more smaller cams except for the #3 above the overlap.

The crack does seem flaring and suspect for gear. If I was onsighting it I'd be inspecting all those horizontals for gear. I can see several that look perfect for small cams.
Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 190

Saw this on R&I...glad her last cam held. From Patto's picture, I can definitely see how this could have happened...that crack is hella flaring. She probably was using small gear to stay inside the more parallel section...hence why the 3 pulled but the 0.5(?) held. I wonder if offset nuts would have been a better choice?

I haven't climbed on NRG sandstone. I've heard it is hard compared to desert stuff, but it still is sedimentary rock. Is there a possibility that the cams could have sheared out?

BrianWS · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 790

The rock at Bridge buttress is bullet hard - it is a far cry from desert sandstone in terms of density and texture. In some areas, the rock is almost glassy. However, it isn't known for spitting out cams, and the only time I've ever blown a piece at the new was due to placing a small cam in far too shallow of a horizontal slot.

Gemini has been climbed and fallen off of thousands of times, and this is the first I've ever heard of an accident or near miss happening there. At the risk of slandering the very fortunate climber in the video, the gear was most likely a simple case of bad placements on a climb that is normally easily and safely protected.

patto · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 25
Ted Pinson wrote:I wonder if offset nuts would have been a better choice?
My 2c, go those horizontals look much better. But they could be nothing...

Ted Pinson wrote:I haven't climbed on NRG sandstone. I've heard it is hard compared to desert stuff, but it still is sedimentary rock.
On average sedimentary is going to be weaker. But you can still get hard sedimentary. (Sorry just my pet peeve, afterall RPs originated on sedementary rock.)

Ted Pinson wrote:Is there a possibility that the cams could have sheared out?
I doubt it. At first I thought that when I saw what appeared to be a puff of dust but then I realised it was just a #3 BD.
Pnelson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 105
BrianWS wrote:At the risk of slandering the very fortunate climber in the video, the gear was most likely a simple case of bad placements on a climb that is normally easily and safely protected.
I know the climber in the video. She was a relatively new trad leader at the time, but also a VERY strong boulderer/sport climber/athlete.

I can't speculate any further, except to say that Left Gemini does take mostly small gear, and that the rock at Bridge Butt can be very hard and sometimes polished, to the point that I have heard of cams on nearby climbs pulling out of parallel or barely-flared placements.
Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

Gear is not bolts. When the climbing is hard enough that a fall is possible you often need to place multiple pieces. climbing Ophir Wall this summer there was a spot where you had to commit to a decent bit of climbing over small gear. I placed a decent #7 stopper that was probably fine but I pinned in the crack by placing a cam in the same crack. Turned a decent placement to a complete bomber rig. Later that day a friend who is way stronger than myself led the same climb. He also Doubled up the gear in the same spot m

BrianWS · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 790
Pnelson wrote: I know the climber in the video. She was a relatively new trad leader at the time, but also a VERY strong boulderer/sport climber/athlete.
This makes more sense now. Strength and prowess on bolts at the New rarely make up for lack of familiarity with the climbing and protection of funky off-vert cracks and the slickness found on some of the classic gear lines at bridge, beauty, and fern.

I've had the pleasure of watching a certain 13+ climber (sorry Christian!) get spit off of some of the classic slick cracks in the 5.8 to 10- range. I've also watched in bemused horror as his cams and nuts came popping out from what would have ordinarily been bomber placements.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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