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Importance of keylock for bolt side biner and rubber thingy on Alpine draws
Summitseeker91 wrote:May seem obvious but color coding is key, for me anyways. I keep colors differentiated for rope and gear side. Quick, easy to maintain, and takes minimal effort to keep sorted. While I agree that you don't want to waste too much time obsessing, small efficiencies with organization will shine the next time you are on 5+ pitches. Reminds me of the shooting expression, "slow is smooth, smooth is fast."But the question still remains if they are alpine draws then why do you need to differentiate between the rope and gear side? |
patto wrote: But the question still remains if they are alpine draws then why do you need to differentiate between the rope and gear side?Because alpine routes have pins and the occasional bolt. Or you climb wandering slab with bolts and you want to extend them.  |
Nick Drake wrote: Because alpine routes have pins and the occasional bolt. Or you climb wandering slab with bolts and you want to extend them.Exactly! |
Nick Drake wrote: Because alpine routes have pins and the occasional bolt. Or you climb wandering slab with bolts and you want to extend them.But that's the point I was trying to make above. Just clipping to something metal does not require a dedicated biner. Whipping repeatedly onto a bolt, or other sport climbing tactics are what damage biners. Are you really doing that kind of damage to your biners while your out climbing long routes? I'm not. If I happen to take a big fall, I might check that single biner and make sure it looks ok, but that doesn't make it worth having some specialized racking system. |
Rich Farnham wrote: But that's the point I was trying to make above. Just clipping to something metal does not require a dedicated biner. Whipping repeatedly onto a bolt, or other sport climbing tactics are what damage biners. Are you really doing that kind of damage to your biners while your out climbing long routes? I'm not. If I happen to take a big fall, I might check that single biner and make sure it looks ok, but that doesn't make it worth having some specialized racking system.For me personally, the metal on metal contact is only one of the reasons for differentiating biners. The other is because of gear side using a smaller gate. Seems to just work well for me, unless the small gate is not keylocked or some other hookless profile. Then I hate the little suckers catching on wires, runners, pins, and so on. I like a larger gate rope side. I agree that the gear side is not getting mangled like you might find on a dedicated sport draw. |
Nick Drake wrote: Because alpine routes have pins and the occasional bolt. Or you climb wandering slab with bolts and you want to extend them.And you are whipping alpine routes and wandering slabs how often? It doesn't seem a sensible rational. Though each to their own on how they build their own racks. Gear/rope clipping requirements do make more sense. On my old rack I used to have curved and straight solid gates for rope and gear ends. Now I have symmetric alpine draws. |
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I have polished and orange biners on my alpine draws...because I stole the biners from quick draws I bought on clearance (hard to beat $4 a biner). That's really the only reason. |
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So the rubber "spine orienter" has a fail mode (although the only known one is caused by operator error), but can be fixed with some tape around the open sling. Has everyone forget the case of rope unclipping from a biner (actually 2 in a roll) from a fall? Not saying rubber keepers would've prevented it. |
reboot wrote:So the rubber "spine orienter" has a fail mode (although the only known one is caused by operator error), but can be fixed with some tape around the open sling. Has everyone forget the case of rope unclipping from a biner (actually 2 in a roll) from a fall? Not saying rubber keepers would've prevented it.Agreed man. I actually think its quite possible that a rubber keeper would have helped in Wayne's case. Rgold and I got into a discussion about this on another thread. My conclusion after 15+ years of anally watching my draws below me is that many things can go wrong when you have a biner flopping around on the rope end of an alpine draw. I have noticed countless times that the rope end biner gets caught up in a cross loaded fashion after I climb above the gear and then there is the problem you brought up regarding Wayne's issue. I am very purposeful with the orientation that I clip my draws and a rubber keeper maintains that position and prevents cross loading. I find the whole DMM freakout fest about rubber stoppers to be complete rubbish. As you say, that is only an issue if there is user error and is therefore completely and easily avoidable. If a climber can't figure out how not to reclip the bottom biner through their draw, then god forbid that they should be in charge of something even mildly more complicated, like say rigging things safely while jugging a traversing section of a route. |
patto wrote: And you are whipping alpine routes and wandering slabs how often? It doesn't seem a sensible rational.Well my follower falling on the wandering slab did put some gouges in my alpine biner draw. They were easily sanded smooth and nothing like what you see on sport draws from actual whippers. You're right, if this was the only rational for different biners I would probably be concerned about how I am going to die without 8 piece anchors at every belay. Not having any concern about that was just a bonus though. My bigger reason was that I prefer a hooded wire on the rope side gate, but the wider nose can sometimes be harder to get through a sling when the cam placement is awkward. The OZ I was using is also too wide to clip old pins/hangers on a few routes. So I have the camp nano 22 on the gear side, with a really thin nose profile and weight savings. Then hooded wire biners on the rope side that are easier to clip. With black for gear and silver rope side biners I've found it really easy to keep track of. |
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folks ... |
