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outside corner pitch 3 belay bolts and memorial plaque.


John Ryan · · Poncha Springs, CO · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 170

It sounds like there is plenty of gear options for an anchor but I would like to add that yes slinging trees does slowly kill them. I have witnessed the slow death of trees because of this, as well as conscientious climbers adding bolted anchors to prevent this and the significant erosion from countless climbers topping out. One of these situations resulted in a chop / rebolt war. Guess who lost? The tree (now very dead) and the now horribly eroded cliff top.

Ben Ricketts · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 40

Why are the bolts linked to the plaque in this discussion? It seems like these are two separate discussions.

mediocre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0
justa beater wrote:Again I highlight the 1st guideline and no I've climbed it 20 times or more and I am a "local" climber as I've lived here 35 years. I'm not the gatekeeper, again if I was I wouldn't be asking questions would I? Attempts to turn this into an argument aren't going to work, this is in my eyes a serious matter that deserves real responses not hostility.
I'm not trying to start an argument, you asked for opinions and I gave you one. Maybe give us a little more background, like, "I climbed this route 19 times, and on the 20th..."
I agree with you on the plaque, I don't like them. Bolts I could really care less. I know that I am sufficient at building anchors, and if there are bolts that just means I save a little time.
Ken H · · Granite, UT · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 3,955

As for the bolts: I could careless. I don't need them but if they are well placed to kick less choss off the top of the formation maybe they are reasonable.

Plaque: OP this is an easy question and I don't believe is one for the climbing community to make the call on. Please I could VERY EASILY BE WRONG but last I knew of the law this is NFS Land and the NFS requires permits for installing anything like a plaque on the land they administer. As reference: The flag pole on Olympus and the plaque on King's Peak; both removed by those who installed.

archive.sltrib.com/story.ph…

So if you want an answer call the Salt Lake Ranger District. If it is permitted then it stays. If not I don't know what they will tell you.

m Mobes · · MDI, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 905
tim wrote: Refreshing, not too often do the dead get called out for being douchebags.
Some might say inconsiderate douche, he probably thought he was the owner of this 3 pitch 5.7 since it was his specialty apparently. Dirtbag thief most might think.
m Mobes · · MDI, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 905

If anyone needs to sling a tree(bush) at the top of this climb they should stay at the beginner crag.

mikewhite · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 55

NFS Salt Lake City district .
District supervisor
(801) 999-2103

shredward · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 0

I climb in the wasatch and I think the bolts and plaque should be removed.

Roots · · Redmond. OR · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 20

I'm not a local but I am a climber. Keep with tradition: Chop them!

Nathan Self · · Louisiana · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 90

Not a local by any means, but I occasionally climb in the wasatch--coincidentally I spent the last few days camping with my kid in the area--not that it matters...

The anchors look good. If they are, leave them. You probably won't undo the damage, and you might just make it worse. Sure there's a long history of chopping bolts, but there's also a long history of installing quality anchors. To my knowledge, most climbers appreciate a solid bolted anchor. (Grid bolting an obvious trad climb is where most chop-jobs take off...)

The plaque is dumb. There are much better ways to memorialize a dead friend, so I think it should be removed. Usually when I see plaques it's because the person died on the climb. I don't like those either but understand the impulse. There's a huge one at the base of a climb at Sam's Throne in Arkansas that is particularly ridiculous, but I guess the dead climber earned it...? Feel free to remove that one, too.

sfotex · · Sandy, UT · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 225

Hey, since no one that is outraged is actually willing to go actually do the work of removing this stuff from the top of Outside Corner I set up a gofundme to cover the cost/time of me going up there and taking care of this problem.

gofundme.com/2dbw7yz8

So donate a few bucks and I'll make this go away.

Sean H · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Dec 2008 · Points: 120

I heard the climb is going to be downgraded to 5.6 in the new guide book coming out because of the new bolts. People used to get pumped out building the anchor and peel off.

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 456
Tom Grummon wrote:As an aside, I personally believe that chopping bolts is worse than placing them in the first place. Chopping does nothing to repair the rock, and is still an eyesore.
Seriously? Bolts can be chopped and with a good patch job by someone who knows what they are doing the holes can camo'ed more than well enough.

Let's not make excuses and rationalizations for retrobolting or for why retrobolts should stay.

And from reading a little about him it's hard to believe he would appreciate either of these actions.
OldManRiver _ · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 105
sfotex wrote:Hey, since no one that is outraged is actually willing to go actually do the work of removing this stuff from the top of Outside Corner I set up a gofundme to cover the cost/time of me going up there and taking care of this problem. gofundme.com/2dbw7yz8 So donate a few bucks and I'll make this go away.
No need - I'll do it with OP or he'll get it done. He would have done it within a few days but he felt duty-bound to give the collective input. It's not going anywhere.
JK- Branin · · Southern New Hampshire · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 56
justa beater wrote:If my temper and ego weren't in check I'd have done it the day I first saw them. Didn't mean to come off snarky, I'm just concerned this kind of thing will keep happening. There are two crags within walking distance of this route that have retrobolted. One route in particular was put up by Conrad Anker on gear and is now grid bolted.
What was put up by Conrad that's now bolted (not arguing, genuinely curious)? What are the two crags? (Assuming geezer is one?)
Tom Grummon · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 30
Healyje wrote: Seriously? Bolts can be chopped and with a good patch job by someone who knows what they are doing the holes can camo'ed more than well enough. Let's not make excuses and rationalizations for retrobolting or for why retrobolts should stay.
I have seen many chopped bolts and it is rarely done well.

As for rationalizations, it seems to me that that is exactly what is going on in this thread from the pro-chopping crowd. "Tradition" is most certainty a rationalization. You use modern gear and techniques, yet all the sudden tradition matters when it comes to this one issue.

Chopping and bolting are the same in my opinion, you are imposing your will and ethic on the climb. There is a time and place for both. But unless it is done properly and well though out, it is usually just ego.
Tofu Brain · · Denver · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 45
JK- wrote: What was put up by Conrad that's now bolted (not arguing, genuinely curious)? What are the two crags? (Assuming geezer is one?)
One crag is Creekside Wall. Conrad was part of the FA of Alien and Raisin Bran, both have been bolted by someone.

I don't live there but I have done Outside Corner, bolts seem unnecessary and the plaque sounds like an eyesore.
J W · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,601
Tom Grummon wrote: I have seen many chopped bolts and it is rarely done well.
+1

I'd reach out to the local council and get in touch with whomever has done the most bolt replacement in the area- those are usually the people with the most experience chopping and patching- that plaque doesn't look easy to remove without doing some damage (the legacy bolts are obviously easy to take out).
DavidDanielBrown · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 0

Those bolts definitely seemed out of place to me. I would vote to chop them.

Victor Whipping · · Salt Lake City · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 0

The landowner (USFS) generally forbids plaques/memorials. The SLCA and local climbers have worked hard to develop a good rapport with the USFS, and a plaque like this detracts from that goodwill.

This one seems easy - confirm that it was not permitted, and kindly and responsibly remove it.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northern Utah & Idaho
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