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outside corner pitch 3 belay bolts and memorial plaque.


Original Post
justa beater · · sandy utah · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 90

So I am a local wasatch climber and recently climbed outside corner and was appalled at the sight of a belay anchor along with a roughly 8"x5" memorial plaque that has been added to the top of the route. I believe this to be an eyesore that takes away a lot of value from the climb and feel they should be removed, rather than go rogue as those who placed them did, I figured I'd present this to the climbing community here and encourage feedback before I take any action. I really don't want this to turn into some absurd argument so please let's keep this civil, let's not call names or berate others, rudeness won't solve anything.

Joe Platko · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 10

Not a local climber, but as someone who has to drive/fly for hours for a 300' climb, the notion that a 8x5 plaque (for someone who might have died on this climb) could take away a lot of value I get from the climb seems curious at best. I would turn around and take in the view.

justa beater · · sandy utah · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 90

Thanks for posting joe, in this case he did not die on the route, he had climbed it a lot, as the sign states more than 300 times.

Michael Schneider · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 785

I'm not sure how I feel without seeing pictures, not just one , but a few enough to see if the work is neat worthy of the sort of weathering, etc. But
This drives to the main issue. And is well said:

Joe Platko wrote:Not a local climber, but as someone who has to drive/fly for hours for a 300' climb, the notion that a 8x5 plaque (for someone who might have died on this climb) could take away a lot of value I get from the climb seems curious at best. I would turn around and take in the view.
Is it on private property ? No ! We already take liberties by placing Bolts. LEAVE THEM

Think in the big picture, where could it go? Where will it end?

This must not be allowed , or get ready to be creeped-out, like in Europe, where every peak
has some macabre reminder, of a life cut short.
They really are unneeded reminders affecting the mood, sometimes the dates can be unsettling.

It is easy to ignore one or two, but when & if everyone wants to have one
or two that they are personally or intimately emotionally tied to, what then?

Out of respect, have ~ a party , a prayer flag, and the ashes spread.

no permanent fixtures in the wilderness.

That seems easy ~

So is This ~
Don't change the full challenge or ignore the historical background,

the guy it is in tribute to, Billy Rothstein
Climbed it, - repeatedly - without the bolts - in the style of the 1st & decades
of subsequent ascents.
From what you can read, Billy did not advocate for taking the easy way out ,
he felt there were lessons to be learned by using climbing gear not just clipping bolts.

sorry that you like anchors,
because if you allow the placement of plaques with out legitimate approval,
the land management will be duty bound to Ban all fixed gear in the wilderness
everything including anchors.

How bad could it get?

Will abandoned gear will be subject to fines, what about replacing a bolt ? a criminal action?

before the access , and safe anchors become the victims,

yank the Plaque,

make it clear it would be a shame if the area came under scrutiny of the land manager .
Leave No Trace, Traditional ethics, with a nod to modern safety.
only take pictures & leave only foot prints,
Please..........

Wow!
With respect
RIP
(Now (in edit after a very short check,) in my opinion I would rethink this tribute.

"We will always remember his love of nature, cheerfulness,
friendship, compassion, and his gentle heart.
His tutelage that he leaves with us is;

"Look up, keep climbing, stay true to traditions,
and remember the greatest happinesses
are not gained by easy things. Climb the mountains."

(sweetheart-spouse) Jami Cirone-Rothstein,

It seems to me, this guy would be upset with this memorial. He seemed to be old school.
Billy Rothstein
Sincerest condolences, to family & friends,

mountainproject.com/v/billy…

justa beater wrote:Thanks for posting joe, in this case he did not die on the route, he had climbed it a lot, as the sign states more than 300 times.
Bill Shubert · · Lexington, MA · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 55

Years ago a friend from my running club passed away. We went out one night and mounted a plaque on a monument that he used to run past frequently. It was on top of the monument, you had to climb up it to see the plaque, but it meant a lot to us every time we ran in that area.

I agree with Joe. If it's at the top, it probably isn't visible from the ground anyway, so I'd just let it be and not mind seeing it there.

MikeSLC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 40

From the description, I'd let it be.

justa beater · · sandy utah · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 90
J-Wright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 0

Chop it.

sfotex · · Sandy, UT · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 225

Kind of funny that little plaque is an eyesore when your climbing above a busy paved road minutes from your car......

Ben Ricketts · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 30

I like the bolt anchors. I think they are a nice addition to the route. I've never liked the gear options on top.

I don't have a strong opinion on the plaque. I doubt the person who loved the route that much would want their name on it, but what do I know. I definitely did not ruin my experience. For some reason I am more bothered by the on on the south ridge of superior.

Tom Grummon · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 30

I, for one, happily used those bolts last time I climbed the route. They are well placed and provide for a comfortable belay. Are bolts, in reality, worse than 6 pieces of decaying webbing left around a boulder or a tree (something that appears on the rest of the route)? We are literally climbing within pissing distance of a highway the whole time so its not like it ruins a "wilderness experience."

As an aside, I personally believe that chopping bolts is worse than placing them in the first place. Chopping does nothing to repair the rock, and is still an eyesore.

Leroy Fielding · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jun 2004 · Points: 5

This route has been climbed since the 60s or 70s WITHOUT a bolted anchor up top. I found that last anchor to be one of the easiest anchors I have ever built in the Wasatch. Cordelette around the big-ass boulder and a solid red metolius placement. What we have here is a blatant example of dumbing down a classic route. Another vote to chop.

Austin Baird · · SLC, Utah · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 95

I'd like to know if anyone voting to chop the bolts still uses them or if they ignore them to set up their own anchor. If you've used the bolted anchor at the top, you can't argue for chopping them. Sorry 'bout it.

Also - the anchor isn't one of the easiest to set up in the Wasatch. That's silly talk.

John Wilder · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,530

As far as anchors and plaques go, that's a pretty clean install that really doesn't create much of an eyesore. I've seen much worse in various places.

Not a local, though, so I won't comment on whether they should stay or go, other than to say that if they are removed, please have someone with experience do it- a bad chop job will look way worse than that super clean install.

Leroy Fielding · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jun 2004 · Points: 5

I last climbed the route early in 2015, which was before the anchor bolts were added. I felt the anchor was easy enough to build, but I usually feel that way any time I can sling a boulder. I will not use the bolted anchor if it is still there the next time I get on this route.

justa beater · · sandy utah · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 90

Great feed back guys! Keep them coming!! Let me start by saying That the work that I do is with my hands, I'm a fabricator and a good one at that. I don't ever do anything without first having researched it practicing it and then implementing it it will be a clean chop if indeed I do decide to chop them. Remember I'm the one who brought up the removal. I wouldn't do it if I can't do it right, also I'd add that it will be under the supervision of an experienced person. Moving on to the real issue is the ethics involved, I 100% agree with the above comment about the potential onslaught of memorials going up anywhere people want to put them. So it's a roadside classic, it hasn't had anchors for over 50 to 60 years maybe more. Why do they need to be there now? Modern convenience? Go to storm mountain if you want that, go to challenge buttress if you want that. As to the belay I personally have used 6 different anchors up there that were natural or gear. I have also used the bolts. I used them to see what it felt like and I didn't like it. Weird I know, but it was. If I was a new leader and that was my first or second multi I wouldn't have been faced with the challenge of finding a suitable anchor spot and building one effectively dumbing down the route, as someone above said. In my eyes this cannot be allowed. It's disrespectful, unfair and is a slap in the face of those who came before us.

sfotex · · Sandy, UT · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 225

You sound like you've listened to a lot of Trump speeches. Maybe a wall at the top would keep out the illegal bolts and plaques?

John Wilder · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,530
justa beater wrote: If I was a new leader and that was my first or second multi I wouldn't have been faced with the challenge of finding a suitable anchor spot and building one effectively dumbing down the route, as someone above said. In my eyes this cannot be allowed. It's disrespectful, unfair and is a slap in the face of those who came before us.
A couple of thoughts regarding this statement.

1) I like to remind myself now and then that at the end of the day, we're not saving the world here. We're indulging in an incredibly selfish pursuit for our own happiness. Getting up in arms over any ethical argument in climbing should be tempered by this backdrop.

2) Generally, when it comes to modifying existing routes, there seem to be two general guidelines to follow. First- check in with the FA if at all possible and see what they want. Second- if the FA is dead or unreachable, community guidelines step in as a substitute.

So, for this particular scenario- since I'm assuming you did not do the FA, I would urge you to either contact the FA if possible or; try to step back from the absolutes of whether this should be allowed, and instead look at it through the lens of the community, the area, and decide whether its something that is appropriate. It has been my experience that this approach leads to less fighting and more constructive conversation about how climbing areas evolve and at the same time keep their personalities.
justa beater · · sandy utah · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 90

No, actually I voted for Bernie if you must know. Climbing politics are the debate, not government. Remember guideline #1 right above the comment window? Please do try to stay on topic.

Kauait · · Sandy Utah · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 0

Can we get a woot woot:) lol

jonathan knight · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 275

Not wanting to get involved with this other than to point out that those bolts are Climbtech Legacy Bolts and easily removable. The installer(s) knew this would be controversial because previously removed anchors are evident at that top out.

Who knows, maybe Billy wanted his memory festering in the craw of the community over this.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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