Pick my tag line

I'm going on a sport trip over in Europe pretty soon. A few of the routes we'll be doing will require full-pitch or near full-pitch rappels.

I have a 60mx9mm 1/2 rope that I could bring (I'll be leading on a single 70), and I also have a 75mx7mm static line that I bought in a fit of noob gearheadedness and have only used once.

The 7mm packs quite small and weighs 5.7 lb. The 9mm is bulkier and weighs 7 lb.

My thought is to bring the 9mm 1/2. I could lead on it (or double it and most definitely lead on it for 35m pitches), and it's long enough to do any rap I'm intending to do on this trip. Obviously, knotting the ends of the ropes will be mandatory with the length discrepancy.

Any votes for the 7mm static? Seems like it'd be a lot harder to pull, more likely to tangle, and obviously can't be led on, but it also seems like it'd tuck pretty easily into the second's pack.

Either way, any suggestions on how to make trailing a tag line less annoying? Clip it through a few bolts so I don't have the thing dangling all the way down to the belay, maybe? I could just climb double-roped if I use the 1/2 rope as well...

Making tag line less annoying:

Lead on one line

Get to anchors and clip in

Pull up line and drop back down to ground. Have belayer attach second line. Clean and rap.

If the route is steep, so you cant do the above, i'd opt for the 7mm

I have that 75m x 7mm static line. It's wonderful and highly recommended as long as there isn't any wind or chickenheads. Works great for Indian Creek, so probably pretty decent for Euro limestone as well.

I run a Paso ( petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Ropes…) as my tag line and my simul climbing rope. At 42g/m a 60m cord clocks in at 5.5lbs which is a bit lighter than your 7mm line (albeit shorter), but it is more versatile in the fact that you can climb on it folded in half if you need to.

I'm not a huge fan of any piece of gear on my kit that serves only 1 purpose and a skinny static line is not versatile enough as you can basically rap on it (and I guess haul).

Just my 2 cents.

In the bigger picture here are my ropes.
70m Petzl Volta 9.2mm - my primary rope for sport and trad cragging, I tend not to bring this if I have to walk very far
60m Beal Opera 8.5mm- main alpine cord for anything I am pitching out. Most alpine routes I have done don't need a 70m so the 60 works fine. Many of the routes would even be fine with a 50m so...
50m Petzl Paso 7.7mm- I bring the Paso along if I need to make full length raps or if the climbing is easy enough I just fold this in half and simul climb on it.

The first 2 ropes are triple rated so they give me the most options for use as singles, twins, or doubles.

WadeM wrote:Making tag line less annoying: Lead on one line Get to anchors and clip in Pull up line and drop back down to ground. Have belayer attach second line. Clean and rap. If the route is steep, so you cant do the above, i'd opt for the 7mm

Should've said, these will be all multipitch, fairly easy free lines we'll be doing.

Todd Anderson wrote:I have that 75m x 7mm static line. It's wonderful and highly recommended as long as there isn't any wind or chickenheads. Works great for Indian Creek, so probably pretty decent for Euro limestone as well.

Do you pack it or haul it?

Awh gotcha - I figured Europe would be single pitch stuff.

I'd go a lightweight twin setup or a tiny haul line

WadeM wrote:Awh gotcha - I figured Europe would be single pitch stuff. I'd go a lightweight twin setup or a tiny haul line

There's definitely a heap of single pitch too, but there are a few multi pitch lines that wander and traverse a bit, and so end up skipping some belays on the descents.

Thanks for the beta!

Optimistic wrote: Do you pack it or haul it?

Both. On easy, long multipitch where the party will have one or two packs anyway, I pack it. If we don't want to carry any packs we tag it. Packing it is only really superior to tagging it when you have some really low-angle chunky terrain, like ridge scrambling, where your tag line could get stuck in cracks or (heaven forfend!) pull off a Big Loose Block.

Assuming we're talking about that red Sterling 75m x 7mm tag line, I'll add that it fits in a bullet pack, along with minimal food, water, first aid kit, layers. But, if you cram it in the bottom of the back, expect to spend some time untangling it at the top.

Twins might be good too. Just used a Mammut 8mm paired with a Bluewater 7.7mm this weekend, that worked well. Usually a set of twins will be lighter than a single lead line + tag/haul/rap line.

Arthur wrote:I run a Paso ( petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Ropes…) as my tag line and my simul climbing rope. At 42g/m a 60m cord clocks in at 5.5lbs which is a bit lighter than your 7mm line (albeit shorter), but it is more versatile in the fact that you can climb on it folded in half if you need to. I'm not a huge fan of any piece of gear on my kit that serves only 1 purpose and a skinny static line is not versatile enough as you can basically rap on it (and I guess haul). Just my 2 cents. In the bigger picture here are my ropes. 70m Petzl Volta 9.2mm - my primary rope for sport and trad cragging, I tend not to bring this if I have to walk very far 60m Beal Opera 8.5mm- main alpine cord for anything I am pitching out. Most alpine routes I have done don't need a 70m so the 60 works fine. Many of the routes would even be fine with a 50m so... 50m Petzl Paso 7.7mm- I bring the Paso along if I need to make full length raps or if the climbing is easy enough I just fold this in half and simul climb on it. The first 2 ropes are triple rated so they give me the most options for use as singles, twins, or doubles.

The paso is an interesting idea for sure, but I don't want to buy anything more, just wanted to make do with what I have. What do you think between the two current options?

Todd Anderson wrote: Both. On easy, long multipitch where the party will have one or two packs anyway, I pack it. If we don't want to carry any packs we tag it. Packing it is only really superior to tagging it when you have some really low-angle chunky terrain, like ridge scrambling, where your tag line could get stuck in cracks or (heaven forfend!) pull off a Big Loose Block. Assuming we're talking about that red Sterling 75m x 7mm tag line, I'll add that it fits in a bullet pack, along with minimal food, water, first aid kit, layers. But, if you cram it in the bottom of the back, expect to spend some time untangling it at the top. Twins might be good too. Just used a Mammut 8mm paired with a Bluewater 7.7mm this weekend, that worked well. Usually a set of twins will be lighter than a single lead line + tag/haul/rap line.

Yep, the sterling!

Interesting thoughts on the twins, will look into that more if life ever again takes me in an Alpine rock direction...

Todd, do you use a biner block to make sure that the knot doesn't go through the rings?

Optimistic wrote:Todd, do you use a biner block to make sure that the knot doesn't go through the rings?

Nope. Maybe I should though. Seems like a biner block is just one more thing to get wedged in a crevice on the way down.

I've been using 60m x 6mm for years. It works great. I see no reason to go with something thicker unless you want to simulrap.

20 kN wrote:I've been using 60m x 6mm for years. It works great. I see no reason to go with something thicker unless you want to simulrap.

Unless you already own a 7mm!

What about you, do you trail it or pack it? Do you use the biner block?

Have you used the tagline before? They require a bit more diligent rope management because they twist easily. If there is little chance that you can get your lead line stuck, I'd opt for the tag line these days.

Here are the tradeoffs:

-You can lead on the half rope if your lead line gets stuck. Not true with the tagline.
-The half rope weights more, but can still go in the pack.
-You can swap which rope gets threaded through the anchors, and rapping will be faster with the half rope. (you can also simulrap)

-You can more easily pack the tagline in a pack, or stuff sack, for the 2nd to carry.
-Pulling the rope is a pain with a tagline. You will definitely want gloves as the tagline digs in to your hands. If you're climbing overhanging sport it's less of an issue.
-When you rap with the tagline for multiple raps, after you pull the rope, the end falls approximately the distance of the rap. You need to pull that end back up, and thread it again. (or untie the EDK at each anchor)

You really should use the biner block IMO with tagline set up. With half rope, a single EDK will be fine. Make sure you dress it properly and in the way that it cannot roll.

At the end of the day, how much does 1.3 lbs matter to you? How much does rappelling fast matter to you. How high consequence is getting the lead line stuck?

what jeff said above ...

tag lines work best for a "just in case" scenario or where the raps are nice and clean (and preferably steeper)

when one gets to more moderate multi/alpine featured terrain and raps ... theres a bigger chance of a thin tag line or the blocking biner getting stuck somwhere

and more of a chance youll need to relead up to get the rope

other than getting stuck the biggest other problem is that you need to "reset the rope" everytime with a full length biner block rappel (pull the rope back up and thread the rope side) ... this takes more time and increases the chance of the rope getting stuck

with doubles/twins or a tag line of ~8mm one can simply thread the rope through the moment the first rapper is down at the anchor ... and the pull till you hit the knot once everyone is down ... its very fast

ironically for a 30m rap (single rope) a biner block rap can be just as fast and theres no way yr missing the middle mark on subsequent raps ....

;)

Optimistic wrote: Unless you already own a 7mm! What about you, do you trail it or pack it? Do you use the biner block?

If the route is hard and steep I'll trail it. This is mostly so the leader can tag up the pack and the second doesent need to climb with it. If it's easy, I'll keep it in the pack. I use a standard ATC to rap.

we love our Sterling static 7mm. Found 6mm too hard too pull, 8 mm too heavy. Loop over PAS and then hang on single shoulder sling at belay. haul if needed. Usually leader trails, if clean pitch, 2nd can trail, or carry in pack. Pull thin rope with lead rope in rap ring. Got sick of double rope technique, easier to use tag line and single rope lead.

Thanks for all the thoughts folks!

I think at the end of the day for the fairly easy (9ish, possibly wandering) routes where we'll need a second rope, using the half is sounding good to me. I do really like the rhythm of the first person down being able to set up the subsequent rappel, and the "pull up the rope each time" part doesn't sound great either.

Also although I didn't mention it previously we'll have a third person joining us occasionally, and the half will mean that our third won't have to bring his own rope.

JeffL I did use the tagline just once, on a long and moderate pitch... The tug of it was pretty annoying!

I have used a 7mm static as my tag line forever but I have been thinking about getting the Edelrid Rap Line 2:
blog.weighmyrack.com/edelri…

In theory it looks like the best of both worlds (size/weight of a skinny static tag but dynamic like a halk rope). Anyone use the Rap Line 2?