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Tope Rope Anchor check


Original Post
Eric Smith 1 · · Dayton, Ohio · Joined May 2014 · Points: 170

So Im a new climber looking to move from gym to the crag. My local crag has bolts in place. I put this together to see if I got the concept down and this wpuld be safe to climb on. I was playing around with what I had in my hands at the time. I know I would like some bulkier locking biners for the bolts, a sling vs runner l, and another biner at the master point.

Anchor
FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275

Eric,

Do you know an experienced outdoor climber that can show you in person? That would be your best bet.

Eric Smith 1 · · Dayton, Ohio · Joined May 2014 · Points: 170

Unfortunately not, right now I'm reading everything I can and even resortimg to tutorials on youtube.

nathanael · · Riverside, CA · Joined May 2011 · Points: 348

Yup but I'd move the limiting knots down to be a bit closer to the master point. A locker at the master point may also add some security.

Jim H · · Pasadena, CA · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 975

Looks good to me. However, for top-roping I suggest using thicker 1" nylon slings over the skinny one pictured. The thicker slings are much more durable, easier to untie, and for TR-cragging you don't need to worry about their extra weight.

Now go git outdoors!! (an great job knowing not to TR through the fixed gear!!)

Ryan Nevius · · Estes Park, CO · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 904

I'd prefer lockers instead of wiregates, a thicker sling, and would move the limiting knots closer to the "master point". In any case, flip those carabiners around so that the gates are facing away from the rock.

Eric Smith 1 · · Dayton, Ohio · Joined May 2014 · Points: 170

Thanks everyone for responses. The limiting knots were giving the most trouble. I couldn't figure out the right placement for them. I'm def going to bump up to 4 locking biners and the 1 inch sling. Thanks again fellas.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65

Is that a sliding-X or two separate slings? I can't tell from even the full size photo and can make a case for either.
If it's the latter, of what use are the limiting knots?

grog m aka Greg McKee · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 70

Looks good enough for jesus. Throw a locker or two opposing regular carabiners at the rope end.

Eric Smith 1 · · Dayton, Ohio · Joined May 2014 · Points: 170

Sliding X.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275
Eric Smith 1 wrote: I know I would like some bulkier locking biners for the bolts, a sling vs runner l, and another biner at the master point.
"Sling" and "runnner" are synonyms. Interchangeable. Mean the same thing.
Kent Richards · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 83
Eric Smith 1 wrote:I know I would like some bulkier locking biners for the bolts, a sling vs runner l, and another biner at the master point.
What's the difference between a "sling" and a "runner"?

The setup in your photo isn't redundant.

Since you're reading, read John Long's anchor books.
Eric Smith 1 · · Dayton, Ohio · Joined May 2014 · Points: 170

Thanks for the clarification Frank
With that cleared yeah I definetly want to use the 1 inch slings. Would it be redundant to perphaps throw the smaller on with the 1 inch for a back in the worse case scenario. Kind of a reserve parachute.

Derek Jf · · Northeast · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 345

LIVE, LIVE PLEASE

Kent Richards · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 83
Eric Smith 1 wrote:Would it be redundant to perphaps throw the smaller on with the 1 inch for a back in the worse case scenario
Yes. Treat them as one item.

Put the two slings (1" nylon and 10mm dyneema) together, tie limiter knots in them, and clip you biners through both.

Or use 2 x 1" nylon slings instead. Or 2 thinner nylon slings.
Todd Ra · · Golden · Joined May 2014 · Points: 50

My thought without getting into preferences and all that jazz:
It's bomber. Both anchor points are redundant. I build full on anchors all the time with a single quadruple length runner. Just cuz it's one sling, doesn't make it not redundant, for my 2 cents.

One thing to keep in mind: I like keeping the gates facing out so they don't get bumped open by a bumpy bit of rock/rap ring/what have you. Not sayin yer gonna die, but a thought...

wivanoff · · Northeast, USA · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 472

Eric, TBH, I wouldn't bother with the sliding X or limiter knots at all. There's been a lot of recent discussion about that on MP and I'm sure you can find it.

I would clip both ends of your long sling to the bolts, pull down the middle two strands to estimate an equalized point and tie a figure 8 loop for a masterpoint - like on the left photo

embarkfit.com/uploads/2/5/7…

There are lots of ways to rig a TR anchor on bolts. Others will be recommending the "quad" and all types of sliding things. What's shown in that picture is simple and safe.

Eric Smith 1 · · Dayton, Ohio · Joined May 2014 · Points: 170

Thanks everybody. I work the next few days. Ill pick up all the gear youve recommended. Ill get to the krag either sunday or monday and try it there. Ill send you some pictures then. Let me know what you think then

Brian L. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 90

So I have been doing a lot of thinking lately regards to my TR anchor set up (and bolted anchors in general). I've come to a few conclusions I'll share with you:

1) Almost anything you post will have someone who doesn't like it for whatever reason. Evaluate it yourself, and come to your own decision.

2) A TR anchor should be 100% bomber. Because you can't easily inspect it, and WHY NOT? AMGA guidelines aren't a bad idea to follow (two lockers or 3 non-lockers on the rope, lockers on the bolts).

3) Extension: Unless your going to be directly connected to the anchor, extension is pretty much a non-issue. Especially in a TR anchor with at least the full pitch length of rope in the system.

Options I don't like:
1) Sliding X - Only 1 sling, not materially redundant, although very strong. This really is a technique better used for connecting to pieces of gear in trad/alpine climbing.

2) Sliding X with limiter knots. Not materially redundant, although potentially more redundant than without the knots. The X can causes non-uniform loading on the strands of the sling due the way the sling behaves after the knots are tied, potentially leading to earlier failure. This is an equalette, set it up like one if you decide to use it (1 locker on each strand)

3) Cordalette/figure 8 - Not well equalized, need to be tied each time to TRY and equalize at all. A small offset in the levelness of the bolts means you will only be loading one bolt.

4)Cordalette/quad - I like the quad, but from a full size cordalette it's really bulky, and a smaller cordalette is a limited use item.

5)Two draws: Not equalized, and doesn't satisfy AMGA guidelines (if non-locking).

Ok, so here is what I do, and I don't know that I've really seen anyone else post this. It was kind of an "aha!" moment.

I use two 60cm slings and make a quad. Since the knot will be too bulky when both slings are tied with one knot I tie each as an equalette. The slings should be the same make, but different colors so you can easily distinguish the strands.

Two slings tied as equalettes

Use 4 lockers. Clip the end loops of each sling to a locker, and do the same on the other side. Then clip 1 strand from each sling with one locker, and the remaining two strands with the other. Don't clip the strands from the same sling! The rope end lockers should be opposite and opposed.
Two equalettes makes a quad!

I like this because it's simple, uses materials I already have, and that can be re-purposed, is redundant, limits extension, and can be pre-tied and adjust to most bolt placements that are mostly horizontal. The only caveat is you shouldn't ever clip 3 strands.
matt c. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 155
Brian L. wrote:I like this because it's simple, uses materials I already have, and that can be re-purposed, is redundant, limits extension, and can be pre-tied and adjust to most bolt placements that are mostly horizontal. The only caveat is you shouldn't ever clip 3 strands.
Oh Jesus, if that is simple I wanna see your complicated. haha Where are you going to run the second rope?

Seems like it works and is bomber. Why do you find equalization so important on bolts?

Edit to add: With your set up, you should be careful that your limiter knots are in the same place on both slings. Otherwise, the placement of the knot could cause the bolt biners to tri-load.
Brian L. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 90
matt c. wrote: Oh Jesus, if that is simple I wanna see your complicated.
I really don't see whats so complicated about it. It's 4 overhand knots. Tie it once and your done. I explained above why I don't prefer the "simpler" solutions. Fwiw besides locking the lockers, this is just as quick as using two draws.

matt c. wrote:Seems like it works and is bomber. Why do you find equalization so important on bolts?
Generally speaking I think everyone wants equalization. I don't see many people setting anchors that only pull one bolt, with slack to the other. I like self equalizing because it equalizes between different bolt locations without having to re-tie.

matt c. wrote:Edit to add: With your set up, you should be careful that your limiter knots are in the same place on both slings. Otherwise, the placement of the knot could cause the bolt biners to tri-load.
Yes, care should be taken to be even as possible, but I don't think you'll triload the biner. What you will do is unevenly load the slings. The reason is both biners are cliped to both slings.

Here are some pictures of the two cases I think you might be worried about if the knots are not even.
At full range. Purple sling unloads. Pulling further completely unloads the RH biner.

One bolt fails, green sling becomes completely unloaded.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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