help translating german edelrid video?


Original Post
smurray47 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 25

Last week I got the edelrid adjustable belay sling. I really like it, and looks like it'll be a very handy way to do sport anchors, or trad anchors if the pieces happen to be really close, and also is a great adjustable PAS.

There's a basic how-to video here, but it's not very detailed and not by Edelrid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCnI7BVaSrY

They have a german-only video that goes through a bunch of scenarios, but I had some questions about it. Vid below. Especially scenario 2 vs 6. The anchor he builds in scenario 2 seems to be quite wide (almost too wide), and doesn't seem ideal at all for an expected downward pull. Is this one for a horizontal anchor? Or is it just assuming bomber bolts, and so he does a very simple anchor for speed's sake. In scenario 6 he builds the anchor I would have built for scenario 2, but seems to be assuming fixed pins or something in this case?

https://vimeo.com/47001108

Thanks for any insights.

John Wilder · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,530

You should contact Moritz B. He's decently active on this site and is the Edelrid Manager for North America.

beaki · · San Jose · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 75

please, cp inline below. hope that helps, warm rgds, axel

They have a german-only video that goes through a bunch of scenarios, but I had some questions about it. Vid below. Especially scenario 2 vs 6. The anchor he builds in scenario 2 seems to be quite wide (almost too wide), and doesn't seem ideal at all for an expected downward pull. Is this one for a horizontal anchor?

it does not say in the video (scenario 2) explicitly but it is assumed that the following climber is below: it is discussed that if the right fixed point breaks there will be a pendulum (only) to the left fixed point but no additional force from a fall into a slackened sling. and this answers your next question as well: no it is not assumed that the "fixed points"/pros/bolts are bomber.

Or is it just assuming bomber bolts, and so he does a very simple anchor for speed's sake. In scenario 6 he builds the anchor I would have built for scenario 2, but seems to be assuming fixed pins or something in this case?

scenario 06 includes two unsafe fixed points and the leader can predict that a fall/load of the belay station will be perpendicular (mentioned several times).

... overall, the main difference is that in scenario 6 a load balance is used to put a similar load on both bolts where in scenario 2 the two bolts are linked in series (full load first on right bolt, if it breaks then pendulum on left bolt).

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490

Scenario 2 is on bolts so assumed to be safe, the belay is arranged in series which is the standard method taught nowadays for this type of anchor, if the primary bolt fails the load swings onto the second bolt. In the narrative he says they are horizontal which is of course wrong but the caption has it correct.
Scenario 6 is if both the anchors are suspect and some load-sharing is desired, building a belay consisting of two suspect pieces is to be avoided.

I was given one of these to test a while back, it works like it says but I never use it. Easier is to use the rope and/or a sling instead of carrying an extra piece of gear around.

smurray47 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 25
Jim Titt wrote:Scenario 2 is on bolts so assumed to be safe, the belay is arranged in series which is the standard method taught nowadays for this type of anchor, if the primary bolt fails the load swings onto the second bolt.
When you say arranged in series, is this done simply because its faster, or is there a safety reason why you would want this to be the case? I'm not saying it's wrong, I've just never seen anyone build an anchor like this. So this is common in Germany? I would always build like he does for scenario 6.

Thanks

Sean
smurray47 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 25
John Wilder wrote:You should contact Moritz B. He's decently active on this site and is the Edelrid Manager for North America.
Thanks, I'll send him a PM
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
smurray47 wrote: When you say arranged in series, is this done simply because its faster, or is there a safety reason why you would want this to be the case? I'm not saying it's wrong, I've just never seen anyone build an anchor like this. So this is common in Germany? I would always build like he does for scenario 6. Thanks Sean
It takes less gear, the primary point doesn´t need a knotted sling (usually) which you can´t undo after it´s fallen on and for a falling leader it is much safer. Direct belaying off the central point in scenario 6 a pull from above will lever the belayer violently into the rock whereas scenario 2 doesn´t.
Here´s a link to another German article but there´s enough pictures:-) google.de/url?sa=t&;rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiG35bJ68DLAhWiJZoKHXsMD80QFggdMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpenverein.de%2Fchameleon%2Fpublic%2F07ace84a-bc33-615a-62a3-151e7b8b859a%2FStandplatzbau-Juli-2012_19947.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEM2WTn4921K2Gc3N-1fHZfd1ebqQ&cad=rja

If you don´t direct belay a leader off the central point then it´s irrelevant what you do.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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