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That which shall not be talked about in SoCal.


Owen David · · Los Angeles, Ca · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 35
Mike Lane wrote:

Would you ban the book Huckleberry Finn?

Why would the context of the era make any difference?

Whenever Groupthink devolves into collective action we start to lose both the linear history and paradigm shifting potential of the species.

I'm years late to this, but the solution of both renaming the route and posting the old name is the absolute worst possible action.

FA's have the right according to our unwritten archaic rules to name a route whatever they want.
We as individuals have the right to denigrate and berate people who choose to be offesnsive.
Mountain Project has the right to simply not publish the name, substitute a message about it or use *** or whatever it chooses to do, as it is a private entity.
When you Collectivise a retaliation, you only drive the original transgression underground

You realize you're comparing a three worded homophobic slur to the novel, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn?

Your argument is as pathetic and childish as the three worded homophobic slur.
Eric · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 10
Owen David wrote:

You realize you're comparing a three worded homophobic slur to the novel, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn?

That is not a response.  You have to explain why the comparison fails.  

Maybe try answering his questions: 

Would you ban Huck Finn?  Does the context of the era matter?

Owen David · · Los Angeles, Ca · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 35
Eric wrote:

That is not a response.  You have to explain why the comparison fails.  

Maybe try answering his questions: 

Would you ban Huck Finn?  Does the context of the era matter?

One is 109,571 words, written over 100 years ago.

The other is three words and banal written at a better informed time.

This thread is about the route name Limp Wristed Faggot specifically.

Although your comments are welcome, it would help to stay relevant to the route name.

Eric · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 10
Owen David wrote:

One is 109,571 words, written over 100 years ago.

The other is three words and banal written at a better informed time.

Progress!  So context does matter!

There's something to build on.
Owen David · · Los Angeles, Ca · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 35
Eric wrote:

Progress!  So context does matter!

There's something to build on.

Why does context matter. What’s your point?

Eric · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 10
Owen David wrote:

Why does context matter. What’s your point?

"why does context matter?" he cries, right after he acknowledges that context matters:


     One is 109,571 words, written over 100 years ago.
     The other is three words and banal written at a better informed time.

My point is that, hey, even with the folks you have been arguing within this thread, you all have something in common in this debate.
Brother Numsie · · Nepal · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 905

Your counterargument is nothing but your personal judgements on context. Time has nothing to do with it. Number of words doesn't either. Your inability to defend the logic of your emotion based opinion is what is childish.

Owen David · · Los Angeles, Ca · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 35
Eric wrote:

"why does context matter?" he cries, right after he acknowledges that context matters:


     One is 109,571 words, written over 100 years ago.
     The other is three words and banal written at a better informed time.

My point is that, hey, even with the folks you have been arguing within this thread, you all have something in common in this debate.

I was asking why YOU think context matters and how/why you want to compare Huck Fin issues with homophobic slurs. 

I don’t think you know which thread you’re posting in.

Again, what’s your point? 

Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0

Personally I think you are better off with letting the original route name stand...and then genuinely community shaming the FA party for as long as it stands.

Some tools will insist on remaining tools and that will be their legacy or the shaming won't stick and life will go on.

Other tools will grow up and rename it Bohemian Rhapsody etc.

Gonna do a route and name it More Puppies.

Who doesn't like more puppies!   

IJMayer · · Anacortes, WA · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 110

i don't think I would ban Huck Finn, but I would encourage schools to offer novels by authors of color and queer authors, instead of almost entirely white authors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_writers

Maybe authors writing during 1885 would have something different to say than Mark Twain, and knowledge to pass on to Americans almost 150 years later?

The context of the era matters because the name LWF only provides historical insight into one perspective of what was happening at that point in time (the perspectives of STRAIGHT white men). Had queer folks had the societal power to speak out against homophobic names, or the energy to do so between being beaten up, victimized, and silenced, I'm sure they would have dissented.

Dan Hoban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2017 · Points: 0

I'm older 58.  I miss the days when people could speak frankly and everyone didn't have to either agree or be quiet.
Opinions seemed to have a higher value a few decades ago.  Now if someone has a different opinion they are evil Nazis.
They must be stopped and silenced.  This is especially true of progressives and liberals. (IMO) and now social media.
Honestly i think it's childish and disingenuous.  Having a discussion about race doesn't make somebody a racist.
Having a discussion about sex doesn't automatically make someone a sexist.  Yet these days it doesn't take long for someone to throw the race card or the sexist card.
This is clearly not done to stimulate conversation but to end it.  In the future if you want to end the discussion walk away.
Insults are not helpful and unless you think you are the ultimate arbitor of the truth they don't teach us anything.
Today its all about getting offended.  When I was young it was about learning.  The thought was your peers could teach you a few things.
Today many live in a echo chamber.  They are selectively fed the news they want to hear, how they want it presented.
They only discuss ideas with people who can confirm their bias and they become intensely irritated if someone dares confront or yike, attacks their narrative.
Many that I have spoken with fiercely defend their ideas but actually know very little about them.  They can speak the talking points but if you peel back a layer with a question or a comment they become flustered and defensive.  This is when the the race/sex/lgbt cards get fired off and the indignantcy and name calling starts.
So put me down as willing to be offended and willing to offend since that the lens people look through these days.
I want a very open, nearly unfettered platform that isn't always for everyone.  Somedays you just have to go to a different forum post if you stumble onto one you don't like.

Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0
Dan Hoban wrote: I'm older 58.  I miss the days when people could speak frankly and everyone didn't have to either agree or be quiet.
Opinions seemed to have a higher value a few decades ago.  Now if someone has a different opinion they are evil Nazis.
They must be stopped and silenced.  This is especially true of progressives and liberals. (IMO) and now social media.
Honestly i think it's childish and disingenuous.  Having a discussion about race doesn't make somebody a racist.
Having a discussion about sex doesn't automatically make someone a sexist.  Yet these days it doesn't take long for someone to throw the race card or the sexist card.
This is clearly not done to stimulate conversation but to end it.  In the future if you want to end the discussion walk away.
Insults are not helpful and unless you think you are the ultimate arbitor of the truth they don't teach us anything.
Today its all about getting offended.  When I was young it was about learning.  The thought was your peers could teach you a few things.
Today many live in a echo chamber.  They are selectively fed the news they want to hear, how they want it presented.
They only discuss ideas with people who can confirm their bias and they become intensely irritated if someone dares confront or yike, attacks their narrative.
Many that I have spoken with fiercely defend their ideas but actually know very little about them.  They can speak the talking points but if you peel back a layer with a question or a comment they become flustered and defensive.  This is when the the race/sex/lgbt cards get fired off and the indignantcy and name calling starts.
So put me down as willing to be offended and willing to offend since that the lens people look through these days.
I want a very open, nearly unfettered platform that isn't always for everyone.  Somedays you just have to go to a different forum post if you stumble onto one you don't like.

#whitemansplaining.

Sometimes you just gotta understand you/we are so tied to the old white man's world that is being challenged now. It was far more an echo chamber in the past when only White Men were allowed to have opinions.
Dan Hoban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2017 · Points: 0
Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

#whitemansplaining.

Sometimes you just gotta understand you/we are so tied to the old white man's world that is being challenged now. It was far more an echo chamber in the past when only White Men were allowed to have opinions.

I believe you just proved my point.

Tim Lutz · · Colo-Rado Springs · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 5
Dan Hoban wrote:  This is especially true of progressives and liberals. (IMO) and now social media.

but yet you yourself point the finger...

while three fingers point back at you

and then there is the NRA that puts Thomas the Tank Engine in KKK hoods

https://www.cnn.com/videos/cnnmoney/2018/09/14/dana-loesch-nra-thomas-and-friends-orig-vstop-bdk.cnn​​​
Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0
Dan Hoban wrote:

I believe you just proved my point.

I think you just proved mine, that Old White Man's Narrative won't be challenged and the whining has just begun. BTW I am just as old and white as you, more or less.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Dan Hoban wrote: I'm older 58.  I miss the days when people could speak frankly and everyone didn't have to either agree or be quiet.
Opinions seemed to have a higher value a few decades ago.  Now if someone has a different opinion they are evil Nazis.
They must be stopped and silenced.  This is especially true of progressives and liberals. (IMO) and now social media.
Honestly i think it's childish and disingenuous.  Having a discussion about race doesn't make somebody a racist.
Having a discussion about sex doesn't automatically make someone a sexist.  Yet these days it doesn't take long for someone to throw the race card or the sexist card.
This is clearly not done to stimulate conversation but to end it.  In the future if you want to end the discussion walk away.
Insults are not helpful and unless you think you are the ultimate arbitor of the truth they don't teach us anything.
Today its all about getting offended.  When I was young it was about learning.  The thought was your peers could teach you a few things.
Today many live in a echo chamber.  They are selectively fed the news they want to hear, how they want it presented.
They only discuss ideas with people who can confirm their bias and they become intensely irritated if someone dares confront or yike, attacks their narrative.
Many that I have spoken with fiercely defend their ideas but actually know very little about them.  They can speak the talking points but if you peel back a layer with a question or a comment they become flustered and defensive.  This is when the the race/sex/lgbt cards get fired off and the indignantcy and name calling starts.
So put me down as willing to be offended and willing to offend since that the lens people look through these days.
I want a very open, nearly unfettered platform that isn't always for everyone.  Somedays you just have to go to a different forum post if you stumble onto one you don't like.

And I'm 63....and agree with perhaps only 1% of this right wing propaganda.

Brother Numsie · · Nepal · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 905
Marc801 C wrote:

And I'm 63....and agree with perhaps only 1% of this right wing propaganda.

Bullet point what exactly is so RW about this. Sincerely looking gauge where POV's are originating from.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275
Mike Lane wrote:

Bullet point what exactly is so RW about this. Sincerely looking gauge where POV's are originating from.

It's right-wing, white supremacist, homophobic, too. Yeah, that's what it is. :) And probably gluten-free.

Paul Hutton · · Idaho · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 740

Stop bumping this thread up with new comments (this will be the last one, ya hear?). Just enjoy climbing the fuckin rock.  I'm gonna name my next FA, which is gonna be a 5.16 onsight solo, of course, "Nerds on MP that bicker in that one thread that's called that which should not be talked about in southern California". Now kick rocks! Anyone wanna partner up in SLC? Don't answer that! Stop commenting! 

Adam Stackhouse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 13,215
Owen David wrote:

Why does context matter. What’s your point?

Dumb question of today's forum goes to...?

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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