Unlisted climbs in Berkeley

Original Post
John Groh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 235

Local ethics question:

I've never seen as high a density of rock climbers as I have in the Bay Area. What confuses me is that a lot of the climbs around here, specifically in the Berkeley crags, are not listed on Mountain Project. Is there some unspoken or spoken rule to not put problems and climbs on the internet? It's not like they aren't in guidebooks.

Just wondering if uploading a few more would spark some kind of controversy. I've always been grateful when passing through an area for a short time when locals have posted their climbs so that buying an expensive guidebook isn't needed.

NorCalNomad · · San Francisco · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 105

Buy one the good guide books for the bay area.

Nathan Self · · Louisiana · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 90

Slightly off topic, but as a climber without a home crag (no Louisiana granite, ya' heard?), I always appreciate when folks post a new crag on MP. It helps me research prior to buying another guidebook and planning a trip. I know a lot of "locals" hold their secret crags close, but that sucks.

simplyput · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 60

Nothing in Berkeley is worth posting. If you can't figure out the meager amount of stone without the internet, you probably don't need it that badly.
Likewise, if someone were to get worked up about any Berkeley rock being posted, they need to stop fooling themselves.

John Groh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 235

@NorCalNomad: That wasn't my question - I have a guidebook already.

@Nathan: Those are exactly my thoughts - glad to hear I'm not alone in thinking this.

@simplyput: Really helpful. Thanks.

Well unless I hear some definitive reason not to then, I might start fleshing out the pages for some of the crags here when I have some down time.

Kris Fiore · · Burlington, Vermont · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 1,474

Not relevant to your area but still on topic.

I will say I have always found it weird when I can tell someone is just reading the book and putting it up on MP. There are a lot of Adirondack climbs that literally quote the guidebook which is pretty lame IMO.

I think for climbs you've done, go for it. Use your experience and post it up. If access isn't an issue and the knowledge is public, why hide it? I've mostly posted my FAs but occasionally added other routes and I say as long as it's from your experience and you're not ripping it out of a guidebook, have at it.

Nathan Self · · Louisiana · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 90

I agree, Kris. You shouldn't steal from the guidebook, but posting basic info or firsthand info is super-ok. For example, it's silly that the Roy, NM directions haven't been posted yet, especially since OwenS has finished his guidebook--which I've ordered. Once I get it, I'll post the directions to the crag, but not the individual problems.

Salamanizer suchoski · · Vacaville Ca. · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 2,740

If you've climbed it, post it. But don't copy out of the guidebook. MP is supposed to be a supplement to the guidebooks with additional information not found in the guidebooks, not the guidebook itself. You read it, research it, get a better idea how to find it etc... then pick up the guidebook and head out to the crags.

grog m aka Greg McKee · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 70

First I want to say thank you for not putting the word 'ethics' in the title of your post and turning this into a circle jerk discussion.

Second, be the steward of your area. Post routes. MP is the go to place to learn about routes. There will be some haters out there but undoubtedly the majority of people will appreciate the information.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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