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Five star rating system

Original Post
jim.dangle · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 5,882

I think this has been brought up before and I know its a little nitpicky but I think the rating on this site would be much improved by moving to a five star system.

As it stands now in my mind it works like this:

Bomb rating. Not worth posting so rarely used.

One star. Kiss of death, the de facto bomb symbol. Maybe it gets used but why would someone want to climb it.

Two stars. Good be great, could be so so. Often worth doing but too much latitude to know much about the quality of the climb.

Three stars. Local classic. But a lot of people use these for climbs they just really like or are proud off.

Four stars. Mega classic, should be reserved for really top quality climbs of the sort that are rarely encountered outside of major climbing destinations.

Basically adding a fifth star for mega classic would open space to split 2 and 3 stars climbs into actually useful categories worthwhile and good climbs that may not stand as true classics either regionally or internationally.

Eric Carlos · · Soddy Daisy, TN · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 121

I concur

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Unnecessary.

Eric Bratschun · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2005 · Points: 75

If it could be guaranteed that mountainproject would not crash and burn with such a monumental change... It's a good idea-

Roy Suggett · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 8,821

Perhaps you are right...but how would that work? Would every currently published route have to be reconfigured into the five-star system? And by who? The route "submitter"? The route setter" The FAer?

Maybe an asterisk by the old system lines?

Dustin B · · Steamboat · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 1,275

Can't you just pretend that the bomb acts as a 1 star rating and adjust the others to fit your personal scale, or would you like the image of the cherry bomb turned into the image a star? Seems now you have shifted your personal parameters and made 1 star 'the de facto bomb symbol'. Or, are we keeping the bomb and adding a 6th level to the system we use subjectively rate the quality of climbs?

If so, I vote for adding a 7th level to account for the perfect climb that only exists in Plato's world of perfect forms. This 7th star will not be usable, so that there is always be a blank star to remind us that perfection is unattainable...

Eric Carlos · · Soddy Daisy, TN · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 121

I personally feel that 3 or 5 star system are better than 4. with a 3 star system you have a definite 2 star "average" route.

Eric Bratschun · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2005 · Points: 75

10 STARS!

Josh Janes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2001 · Points: 9,954

Less stars is better. But four is fine.

It's easy when you think of the stars as corresponding to the following words (as per Mountain Project):

Bomb = "Avoid"
1 Star = "OK"
2 Stars = "Good"
3 Stars = "Great"
4 Stars = "Classic"

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974

I hate to bring it up, but numerical star ratings are inherently sexist and the climbing community needs to move beyond this.

The obvious solution is quality ratings based on smell.

I leave the details to your imagination.

jim.dangle · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 5,882

I get that every rating system has the potential to be arbitrary and overcomplicated and it is hard to provide a rational justification for any of them. However, I guess my point is that system not doesn't really reflect reality (at least in my experience) and is not especially helpful. The distinction between 1-3 stars is not all clear and not all consistent.

The real problem is grade-inflation and that we are guilty of. And sure if people rated things more strictly that would help but that doesn't seem likely to happen.

If we can't provide a rational justification for any rating system at least we can adapt the existing system to find one that actually works in practice and provides better usability.

Just a suggestion.

jim.dangle · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 5,882
Josh Janes wrote:Less stars is better. But four is fine. It's easy when you think of the stars as corresponding to the following words (as per Mountain Project): Bomb = "Avoid" 1 Star = "OK" 2 Stars = "Good" 3 Stars = "Great" 4 Stars = "Classic"
i like the idea of this but . . .what happens when your ok is my good. Or when I am super pumped about finally climbing a problem that a meant a lot to be because it happen at an important moment in my life and the movement was spectacular and it was my first v6 so I am going to grade it a 3 even though I kind of know it is just a 2 etc.
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

Either way, all of my sent projs will get the maximum amount of stars brah

nathanael · · Riverside, CA · Joined May 2011 · Points: 525
jim.dangle wrote: i like the idea of this but . . .what happens when your ok is my good. Or when I am super pumped about finally climbing a problem that a meant a lot to be because it happen at an important moment in my life and the movement was spectacular and it was my first v6 so I am going to grade it a 3 even though I kind of know it is just a 2 etc.
A 10 star system isn't going to change that.. Ratings (both quality and difficult) are subjective and gradiating the scale more finely isn't going to do much. Especially since it would sort of require everyone go through and re-rate all their climbs which is not practical.
jim.dangle · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 5,882
Dylan B. wrote:This is perhaps one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever read. It's about as meaningful as a nerd-fight over whether Superman is stronger than the Hulk. First, the ratings are already broken into a scale of 1-5. It doesn't require much ability to think in the abstract to recognize that a "bomb" is "one," whereas one star is a "two," and so on. The fact that a one is a different little picture than the rest is irrelevant. Secondly, star ratings are 100% subjective, and only have meaning relative to one another. You could have three, five, sixteen or forty-five stars, and all you're doing is readjusting the scale. Each climb remains in the same relative position to the others, and that's the only meaning that the stars have. A more finely calibrated scale won't provide any better results, because people's varying selection of "two" v. "three" includes a significant degree of subjectivity and arbitrariness. Thirdly, the scale is already calibrated to the first decimal point; the averages actually indicate a calibration broken into fifty different grades. If you're really all that damn concernd about how other people rate a climb, you can choose to climb a 3.8 average over a 3.6. What a waste of time and effort changing this over would be. Hell, if I wasn't stuck in bed recovering from kidney surgery and bored out of my skull, even reading this thread would have been a colossal waste of time.
This is completely and utterly ridiculous. Hulk is obviously stronger than superman.
Michael Brady · · Wenatchee, WA · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 1,316

Warrior, the only thing anyone can do is be a runner-up for a BoMPy.

You will forever hold THE BoMPy.

Michael Brady · · Wenatchee, WA · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 1,316
Warrior wrote: I've been out of the loop for a while!
I feel like I have been too. But I'm pretty sure we haven't missed anything.

Van is going well and the she person still doesn't mind pissing into a growler. The NW winter has made things a lil dank-ish, but nothing a little heat and a 5 lb. bag of desiccant can't take care of.
FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
Warrior wrote: /send privatemessage DylanB /end privatemessage DylanB
What does this mean? You didn't post someone's private message to you, did you?

Surely, you wouldn't do something that tacky.
Daniel Kaye · · Denver, CO · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 3,938

I propose a 50-star systems, cause this is 'merica.

1 star = The runout "sport" route that was cut down by Ken Nichol because there's an excellently bad micro-nut placement about 75' up, that that's it.
2 stars = "It could be classic if it wasn't chossy, dirty, run out, chossy, height dependent, unsafe, chossy, and bolted"
3 stars = funny smelling, and either wet or usually wet. Oh and with spiders.
4 stars = If nothing else is available, still don't climb it.
5 stars = Shitty pro, shitty holds.
6 stars = Has two ok-ish moves
7 stars = Is fun, but really a total squeeze job.
8 stars = 8b+
9 stars = Sorta fun maybe except for the falls, top out, moves, and holds.
10 stars = Worth a try on a Wednesday
11 stars = Ok if you are top roping
12 stars = shitty holds, good pro.
13 stars = One of the two star ratings that can only be applied to bouldering problems, for reasons a non-boulderer would not understand.
14 stars = Good for warming up for proj, that's about it.
15 stars = Fun, but only because of that one heel hook.
16 stars = Has funky part, like 43' traverse, but rest is ok.
17 stars = Number of stars worthy of Luigi.
18 stars = Eh.
19 stars = A prime number of stars.
20 stars = Ok holds, ok pro.
21 stars = Climb good enough to have a beer after. Or during.
22 stars = Climb requiring a good Catch-.
23 stars = Good first date climb. Classicish and fun, but probably not super busy when you force your man (or women) up it as their first ever lead.
24 stars = Hmmm, yeah, it's aiight.
25 stars = Pretty OK.
26 stars = Ok holds, great pro.
27 stars = It's probably the dyno that makes it fun.
28 stars = One of the two star ratings that can only be applied to bouldering problems, for reasons a non-boulderer would not understand.
29 stars = Fun for the Onsight.
30 stars = Fun enough to make you smile 4 times while pulling the moves.
31 stars = More fun the second time.
32 stars = Would be a class if not for _______.
33 stars = 10/10 would whip.
34 stars = Number of stars worthy of Mario
35 stars = Classic.
36 stars = Ultra Classic.
37 stars = Mega Classic.
38 stars = Super Mega Ultra Classic.
39 stars = Super Mega Aggro Crag type classic (do- do-, do, do ya have it?).
40 stars = Photogenic route.
41 stars = Quite exposed route.
42 stars = Classic moves, exposure, and photogenic.
43 stars = Awesome holds, no pro.
44 stars = Enjoyable pumping flash with forearm-refreshing crux.
45 stars = Classicaltacular.
46 stars = Every single move, even the start, is a classic.
47 stars = The highest prime number star rating possible.
48 stars = like Don Quixote Classic
49 stars = I would fly across 49 states just to do this climb.
50 stars = bomber.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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