Rappel belay device


Original Post
Jacob Feia · Jan 27, 2016 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 0
I'm getting 11mm static line for rappelling and I need to know what kind of belay device to use with a 11mm rope. I weigh 110lbs. Thanks

grog m aka Greg McKee · Jan 27, 2016 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 0
I would recommend an ATC guide. Super versatile.

Jim Fox · Jan 27, 2016 · Westminster, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 10
I'd second the ATC Guide.

Easy to use, light and you can:
1. rappel on 1 or 2 ropes
2. belay off your harness
3. belay 1 or 2 followers offf the anchor in "guide mode"

One thing to be aware of- not a great choice for lowering anyone if used in guide mode.

Figure 8's are OK to rap with but not ideal for belaying, so you would end up carrying 2 devices.

matt c. · Jan 27, 2016 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 10
Jacob,
You said you are buying a 11mm static line. Are you just rapping or are you planning on climbing in the near future?

If you are just rappelling almost any device will work. As noted above, the figure 8 is great from rappelling on fatty ropes like you have. The petzel pirana is a similar device that allows you to change the fiction setting on your rappels and allows you to lock off with the device. An ATC will also work for rappelling but will be pretty slow with a 11mm rope.

Jim Fox · Jan 27, 2016 · Westminster, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 10
If you are strictly rappelling and don't need a belay device (for vertical caving or some canyoneering) this device works quite well but is heavy, expensive and not versatile:

http://www.rescuegear.com/smc-micro-u-rack-stainless-steel-with-bars.html?utm_source=google_shopping

ViperScale · Jan 27, 2016 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 165
Although an ATC Guide is rated for up to a 11mm rope it can be a pain trying to get anything over 10.5 through it.

rocknice2 · Jan 27, 2016 · Montreal, Quebec · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 2,958
The OP asked for a device to rappel on 11mm static. The best answer came in the first response. Buy a fig8. Cheap and easy to setup.

Greg D · Jan 27, 2016 · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 511
^^^ this answer and the first answer by John Marsella are the best answers.

bearbreeder · Jan 27, 2016 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 25
Be aware of the failure mode of the figure 8

http://theuiaa.org/upload_area/files/1/Karabiner_Breakings_when_using_a_Figure-of-eight.pdf

Certain biners might have sleeves to prevent this

Also certain professional (not recreational) carabiners have a high push in and gate loading rating that prevent it as well

As always find someone experienced to show you how .... Or you may become food for mu beahz !!!

;)

Jim Fox · Jan 27, 2016 · Westminster, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 10
Greg D wrote:^^^ this answer and the first answer by John Marsella are the best answers.
I agree that figure 8 is a good option for rapping on a fat rope.
I used one for many years to rap . Haven't used one in many years but it's simple, safe and works well.

If you are looking at long rappels or dirty,wet rappels (like in caving), a rappel rack is a great option

I've used an ATC on 11mm ropes years ago, when ropes were typically fatter, and it worked Ok

Kevin Beadle · May 14, 2016 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0
I like the petzl rig buttttttt I also use it for work. It's pretty much a grigri on steroids

r m · May 14, 2016 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 0
One option might be a rack, they look like this:
https://www.petzl.com/US/EN/Sport/Belay-devices--descenders/RACK

Nathan Hui · May 15, 2016 · San Diego, CA · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 0
Should try the Sterling ATS belay/rappel device. I've used it on 11.4 mm rope, not too terrible. In a pinch, you can also use the ATS as a tube-style belay device, and as a plaquette belay device, but tbh it kinda sucks for that.

http://www.backcountry.com/sterling-ats

trentbrown · May 18, 2016 · Seoul, Korea · Joined May 2015 · Points: 25
Air Assault!!
This is the way I originally learned. Single snaplink on a swiss seat. Knuckle to spine contact will stop you.

Oh, I have so many stories from teaching basic trainees to rappel as a drill sergeant....

Gunkiemike · May 18, 2016 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 1,850
trent - thank you for your service.

But please let's not suggest assault rigging for recreational climber use, k?

Greg D · May 18, 2016 · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 511
Gunkiemike wrote:trent - thank you for your service. But please let's not suggest assault rigging for recreational climber use, k?
Why not. Rappelling is stupid simple. It's discipline, awareness and and a large dose of pay the fuck attention that makes rappelling safer, not all the other bs that others are believing will keep them safe. Imagine if every climber learned how to rappel from a drill Sargent. There would be way less fuck ups out there.

Thanks Trent for your contribution and way more for your service.

trentbrown · May 19, 2016 · Seoul, Korea · Joined May 2015 · Points: 25
Gunkiemike wrote:trent - thank you for your service. But please let's not suggest assault rigging for recreational climber use, k?
I should have been more clear about my intentions when I posted. My point is that there are many safe ways to rappel for trained people. Myself and two other drill sergeants would inspect and send 220 rappellers on tower day. Almost every Soldier sent down the ropes had never rappelled like that before. With professional instruction and guidance, rappelling using the military method can be fun and fast... almost the fastest method of moving Soldiers vertically down where time is important, i.e. bad guys with guns are around (fastroping is faster but IMO not as safe).

You are correct, I should not, and do not condone recreational climbers using this method without proper training, instruction, and supervised practice, and I should have mentioned that in my original post, especially in a beginner's thread.

patto · May 19, 2016 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 0
Greg D wrote:Imagine if every climber learned how to rappel from a drill Sargent. There would be way less fuck ups out there. Thanks Trent for your contribution and way more for your service.
Yep. The US Military is absolutely not known for its "fuck ups".

Pointless wars, deaths of 100,000s of innocents, creation of lawless states which promote extremism.... Oh and lets not forget just plain old mismanagement:
https://www.rt.com/usa/afghanistan-pentagon-military-base-leatherneck-904/
https://warisboring.com/heres-how-the-military-wasted-your-money-in-2014-6837137e3dc2#.mcc6vprsd

Yep, lets get our advice from the military. Good idea.

Bill Lawry · May 19, 2016 · New Mexico · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,399
patto wrote:Pointless wars, deaths of 100,000s of innocents, creation of lawless states which promote extremism.... Oh and lets not forget just plain old mismanagement: rt.com/usa/afghanistan-pent... warisboring.com/heres-how-t...
Sounds more like a knee-jerk anti-military statement than anything about climbing / rappelling.

Still, I tend to agree ...

Unlike simply two partners swapping leads, the military environment is going to foster climb / rap techniques that suit their purposes - some already mentioned upstream.

It is similar for the guide-service environments where the money-for-service paradigm brings in influences that are quite different than a couple peers roping up.

And, yet, cross-pollination between the different environments can be a good thing. Just don't turn off the "brain switch".

trentbrown · May 19, 2016 · Seoul, Korea · Joined May 2015 · Points: 25
Patto, I am not going to touch your comments about my chosen profession, but I'll defend, to the death, your right to say it.

Bill, I think the reason the military does things a certain way is that it can and will work in every given situation, given enough trained personnel and equipment. As recreational climbers, we have the option to set up anchors anyway we see fit and tailor the method to the situation. In the military, we tend to go overkill on carrying equipment in order to use a single proven method. Also the method used to rappel is quick to setup, inspect, and rappel with a qualified rappel master at the top. I could send a trained soldier down a 40 foot face about every five to ten seconds on one rope, if the need arose to quickly insert as many soldiers as possible. This would also include a fireman's belay at the bottom instead of a prussic backup.

In my civilian climbing and rappelling, I never use the military method because there are better techniques for the situation. It is always an option, though, because I have the training and experience, and it has been proven safe if done correctly.

Medic741 · May 19, 2016 · Red Hook, New York · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 85
Fyi to any new climbers, what is pictured is not a munter and is not a safe way to rappel without gloves. This really isn't a best practice, but thanks for sharing Trent? Don't know what the purpose of sharing something that's inherently dangerous on a site answering a beginner's question... 'cool' factor of being military maybe? Lots of us have 'cool' factor 'stuff' we could share that's just not appropriate for a climbing conversation.

Sharing a picture of this puts the risk that someone might think this is a good idea, and not having experience or instruction with this method attempt it (almost certainly without gloves) and could fall to their death... and I could go on about something 'cool' here but it's not necessary for a discussion of rappelling, which is lame to begin with.

Cause no one is shooting at anyone and I don't know anyone that raps with gloves... so cool but irresponsible I guess?

In all seriousness, thank you for your service.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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