Bolted anchor biner replacement


Original Post
thebmags · Oct 20, 2015 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 105
Came across some semi grooved biners the other day at an anchor and realized that in my pack I have nothing to replace them with. So the question is for the route developers and safety conscious folk out there.

What seems to be a good "goto" steel biner for replacing old worn links and biners ?

amarius · Oct 20, 2015 · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 0
Mussy hooks attached to anchor bolts/hangers with quick links are the best.
Like this

One option for purchase

M Sprague · Oct 20, 2015 · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,750
Not everybody is a fan of Mussy hooks and their crappy "gates". Even the climbing specific SS biners' gates tend to freeze up or get floppy after a while since the springs don't hold up. I prefer anchors without moving parts, like just two heavy quicklinks or quiucklink and ring combo on each bolt, or if you want something you can just drop your rope into, ramshorns.

Brent Apgar · Oct 20, 2015 · Out of the Loop · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 35
M Sprague wrote:Not everybody is a fan of Mussy hooks and their crappy "gates". Even the climbing specific SS biners' gates tend to freeze up or get floppy after a while since the springs don't hold up. I prefer anchors without moving parts, like just two heavy quicklinks or quiucklink and ring combo on each bolt, or if you want something you can just drop your rope into, ramshorns.
+1

S. Neoh · Oct 20, 2015 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 0
DQ introduced ramhorns (a pair per top anchors) to Rumney and after using them for a while, I am thinking they are the best :)

John Byrnes · Oct 20, 2015 · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 241
In Rifle we use steel "gym" biners.

http://www.camp-usa.com/products/carabiners/gym-safe/

amarius · Oct 20, 2015 · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 0

Micah Klesick · Oct 20, 2015 · Vancouver, WA · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 3,989
We started to use the Climb Tech, or Trango steel biners, only about $6 per biner, and really hold up well. Even our most popular routes only show a little wear after a year. And they have a keeper to stop them from flipping or getting stolen.

Mark E Dixon · Oct 20, 2015 · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 224
Other options-

http://www.trango.com/p-247-steel-wiregate.aspx

http://www.climbtechgear.com/permadraws/

Eric Engberg · Oct 20, 2015 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 0
S. Neoh wrote:DQ introduced ramhorns (a pair per top anchors) to Rumney and after using them for a while, I am thinking they are the best :)
+1. Modern REPLACEABLE version of cold shuts. What goes around comes around...

M Sprague · Oct 20, 2015 · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,750
BoltProducts seems to call the Ramshorns Pigtails and the SS ones are much cheaper than the titanium ones. Nice as they are, I think the titanium ones are overkill in most instances, unless you are in a high corrosion area or have a high budget. SS horns are more likely to wear out (can be easily replaced) long before they would corrode most times at popular US areas.

At Rumney we find the expensive clippy type anchors just don't seem to hold up well and aren't worth the expense. A good portion of the gates seem to fail quickly.

amarius · Oct 20, 2015 · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 0
M Sprague wrote: SS horns are more likely to wear out (can be easily replaced) long before they would corrode most times at popular US areas.
Would you recommend using QuickLinks to attach horns to anchors?

S. Neoh · Oct 20, 2015 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 0
M Sprague wrote:At Rumney we find the expensive clippy type anchors just don't seem to hold up well and aren't worth the expense. A good portion of the gates seem to fail quickly.
Sadly, this has proven to be the case at Rumney. Not too long ago, I experienced "lame gate" on two separate quickies in a short day of climbing and cleaning.

John Byrnes · Oct 20, 2015 · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 241
M Sprague wrote: Nice as they are, I think the titanium ones are overkill in most instances, unless you are in a high corrosion area or have a high budget. SS horns are more likely to wear out (can be easily replaced) long before they would corrode most times at popular US areas.
I agree with you about the stainless rams horns, but disagree with the "high budget" comment.

Titanium has a much higher resistance to abrasion than stainless. In the Brac we lower directly from the Ti anchor bolts. This year I took a micrometer and tried to measure the wear on the anchor bolts on the most popular route there, which was rebolted with Ti in 2000. The wear was unmeasureable. You could see a polished area, and feel the difference in texture, but the wear was < .001".

So if titanium rams horns last ten times longer (or more) than stainless, but only cost about twice as much, is it really fair to call them "high budget"?

FYI: Ti rams horns US$12.50

M Sprague · Oct 20, 2015 · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,750
John Byrnes wrote: I agree with you about the stainless rams horns, but disagree with the "high budget" comment. Titanium has a much higher resistance to abrasion than stainless. In the Brac we lower directly from the Ti anchor bolts. This year I took a micrometer and tried to measure the wear on the anchor bolts on the most popular route there, which was rebolted with Ti in 2000. The wear was unmeasureable. You could see a polished area, and feel the difference in texture, but the wear was < .001". So if titanium rams horns last ten times longer (or more) than stainless, but only cost about twice as much, is it really fair to call them "high budget"? FYI: Ti rams horns US$12.50
Good points. I have been wondering about the wear resistance of titanium for a while but hadn't seen any reference to it until you mentioned it. We should try a few on some of the more popular Rumney routes and see how they do. Since the RCA (and other organizations) can cover the expense through donations and they wouldn't be directly from an individual's wallet who may be living paycheck to paycheck, the economics may indeed make more sense over time.

thebmags · Oct 20, 2015 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 105
Thanks for all the advice guys looks like ramhorns it is for now. I wonder if we could get the BD QC labs to do some testing even though it not their product. If not I'd be down to throw a couple bucks in for science

Ken Noyce · Oct 20, 2015 · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 1,912
thebmags wrote:Came across some semi grooved biners the other day at an anchor and realized that in my pack I have nothing to replace them with. So the question is for the route developers and safety conscious folk out there. What seems to be a good "goto" steel biner for replacing old worn links and biners ?
the Trango steel wiregates are my favorites, they're inexpensive, they last a long time and the clipping action is great. The Omega gym-lite clips really well, but is super expensive. Most other steel biners (climb tech, fixe, camp, etc.) don't seem to be very easy to clip in my opinion.

eli poss · Oct 20, 2015 · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 136
I much prefer the steel gym biner to the ramshorn because it is much more familiar to the majority of climbers. Plus, the trango ones are pretty cheap, only around $6-7 apiece. I am interested in Ti's resistance to wear, though, so I wish Titan made Ti Biners like the the steel ones trango makes. I'd love to never need to replace the anchor biners at my home crag

M Sprague · Oct 20, 2015 · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,750
It only takes a couple of uses of the ramhorns to get used to them. Peeople at Rumney seem to be tuning right in.

Rob T · Oct 20, 2015 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 10
thebmags wrote:Thanks for all the advice guys looks like ramhorns it is for now. I wonder if we could get the BD QC labs to do some testing even though it not their product. If not I'd be down to throw a couple bucks in for science
Not gonna happen, to much liability/bad blood from testing/commenting on another company's product. Need an independent tester ala consumer reports for that.

I must say, I'm impressed this hasn't devolved into gumbies screaming LNT!!!, WILDERNESS!!, etc yet. Hope this doesn't jinx it.

S. Neoh · Oct 20, 2015 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 0
Geez Whiz, Eric, do you have to remind us of the half worn aluminum open cold shuts which were widely used in the early/mid 90's, esp at Owens? What a nightmare, made quite an impression, could really ruin one's day.
Mark, I am willing to contribute to the cause of equipping the most popular routes at Rumney (and we certainly know which ones) with Ti ramhorns when it is time to replace the worn quickies. However, the trick is not to publicly disclose which climbs have Ti and which ones do not. It may make people less willing to TR through their own draws if they are under the impression the ramhorns will "last forever". I still see the occasional party working a route on TR directly through the steel quickies, esp at the lower crags where newbies were deemed lack the knowledge to clean the anchor draws without being a threat to themselves and others.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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