Cordelette knots


Noah T · · Atlanta, Georgia · Joined May 2011 · Points: 0
Truck13 wrote: No reason to keep your cordelette tied at all. Most every anchor you build with a cordelette you tie a knot to create the master point and shelf. That knot closes the system. Starting with closed cordelette limits the options for the anchor. If you need to untie the closed cordelette, untying the knot that closed it is miserable. That knot often has been in place for as long as the cordelette has been in use and loaded repeatedly. None of this was my idea. It was taught to me by a AMGA certified guide. Back to the OP, when I used to close my cordelette, I used a double fisherman. Truck13

Where do the loose ends end up? in the master point, I assume?  I've always left my cordolette tied (I keep a long one and a short one handy for varying distances in my anchors)

Jordan G · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 0
Noah T wrote:

Where do the loose ends end up? in the master point, I assume?  I've always left my cordolette tied (I keep a long one and a short one handy for varying distances in my anchors)

You rack the cord untied and then whenever you want to build an anchor, you can quickly tie and dress an EDK (always with adequate tails) to make whatever size loop you need. That way you always have an adjustable cord.

Bill Lawry · · New Mexico · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,497
Rusty wrote:

The old traditional Water Knot for joining webbing turned out to be more of a Death Knot than the euro simple overhand! One of Chouinard's (Great Pacific Iron Works) campaigns, long, long, ago was to get people to join webbing with a double fisherman's knot.......and he was totally right! A Water Knot in webbing is incredibly hard to tighten and tends to loosen up without warning........though it does look very neat, which is probably why folks are fooled.

I've settled on a little softer view of the lowly water knot.  

First, though, pre-weighting a water knot in webbing will tighten it enough that it will not loosen without warning (first issue); though periodic inspections are still warranted.  A second issue is that cyclical loading tends to cause the tails of a water knot to slowly creep into and through the knot, eventually leading to complete failure if unchecked.  A third issue is it may not be as strong as a double fisherman's in webbing.

Because of the third issue (strength), I use the double fisherman's for the few double-length slings that I carry and use on lead - so I can untie / retie them as needed for rap anchors.   Cutting a sewn sling and tying it back together loses some length.

Last, a correctly tied water knot is much easier to recognize in webbing than a double fisherman's.  And so I tend to prefer the water knot in rap anchors despite the second issue (tail creep under cyclical loading).  Others can easily inspect it pre-use and recognize whether it is correct.  But always check for adequate tails in a rap anchor!

Bill Lawry · · New Mexico · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,497
Jordan G wrote:

You rack the cord untied and then whenever you want to build an anchor, you can quickly tie and dress an EDK (always with adequate tails) to make whatever size loop you need. That way you always have an adjustable cord.

Or don't tie an EDK - I generally think of it as unworthy of anything more than body weight during a rap.

An alternative when rigging a standard knotted cordelette for an anchor:  after threading through each piece, marry the two tails in a way as though they go to another imaginary piece.  Now statically equalize the power point bends of cord and tie the main knot as usual.  That knot isolates the ends from seeing any load.

mstolorena · · Shelby, NC · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 95

Cordelette takes up so much space on harness... You could use a 240cm sling (and an extra quickdraw/30cm sling if needed). Or use the rope for anchor w/ sling to equalize close pieces. If swapping leads and not hanging out at the belay, often the cordelette/sling is just more hassle than it is worth. 

David Kerkeslager · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 45
mstolorena wrote:

Cordelette takes up so much space on harness... You could use a 240cm sling (and an extra quickdraw/30cm sling if needed). Or use the rope for anchor w/ sling to equalize close pieces. If swapping leads and not hanging out at the belay, often the cordelette is just more hassle than it is worth. 

Slings are generally thicker than tech cord, so a 240cm sling is going to take up more space on your harness than a 240cm cordalette made of tech cord.

mstolorena · · Shelby, NC · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 95
David Kerkeslager wrote:

Slings are generally thicker than tech cord, so a 240cm sling is going to take up more space on your harness than a 240cm cordalette made of tech cord.

I meant to say 240cmx8mm dyneema sling. Have not used tech cord before, but when I fold my 240 dyneema sling over a few times, twist it up tight, pretty darn slim and lightweight. 

Does anyone even use nylon slings anymore?   

Beean · · Canmore, AB · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 0

Clove hitch to each piece. No knots!

David Kerkeslager · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 45
mstolorena wrote:

I meant to say 240cmx8mm dyneema sling. Have not used tech cord before, but when I fold my 240 dyneema sling over a few times, twist it up tight, pretty darn slim and lightweight. 

Does anyone even use nylon slings anymore?   

I was assuming you meant 8mm dyneema sling. My tech cord is 5.9mm and lighter than a 240cm x 8mm dyneema sling.

I'll also note that most people's cordalettes are longer than 240cm. So while your sling might be lighter than a 15ft cordalette, it's not giving you as much.

Xam · · Boulder, Co · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 73
David Kerkeslager wrote:

I was assuming you meant 8mm dyneema sling. My tech cord is 5.9mm and lighter than a 240cm x 8mm dyneema sling.

You are wrong on the weight:

Dan.G. yorlig · · Queens, NY · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 0

a standard shoelace knot will do just fine for anchors.

Bill Lawry · · New Mexico · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,497
mstolorena wrote:

Does anyone even use nylon slings anymore?   

Guilty as charged.  :-)

eli poss · · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 456
Bill Lawry wrote:

Guilty as charged.  :-)

I do too, although I don't buy nylon slings anymore. But I have 1 nylon alpine draw I still use regularly and I always have one or two tied shoulder length slings that I rack onto. The 1" tubular webbing is much more comfy than a skinny dyneema sling, and I can easily leave them as bail gear without putting a even a scratch on my wallet.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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