Unclipping accidents

This question concerns recent leader falls that result in unclipping of the rope, often with terrible consequences. Is unclipping during the fall related to wire-gate or dog legged biners? It seems that such unclipping accidents were almost never reported when biners were largely in oval or D-configuration. Have changes in biner design contributed to unclipping accidents?

From what I understand, it's more likely in situations where you're extending draws/gear with slings. The sling can twist and in certain (extremly rare) situations the rope can unclip.

This can be mitigated by using locking carabiners on certain critical pieces that need to be extended - or by looking into some of the new carabiners developed to prevent this. I remember seeing it in a past post (I linked it actually) but can't seem to find the company manufacturing them right now.

Edit :: Here is the carabiner, made by grivel

gearjunkie.com/best-in-show…

Richard M. Wright wrote:This question concerns recent leader falls that result in unclipping of the rope, often with terrible consequences.

Ya got a citation on this where is this barrage of leader accidents happening?

The only time I have ever personally seen an issue with potential un-clipping is pulling over a bulge to a slab, sport climbing and a wire gate biner. Due to rope drag and the leaders dragging his leg up the rock The quick draw rotated up caught the bolt hanger and the gate started to pry open.
As far as un-clipping being happening frequently, it doesn't happen. I have seen no evidence ever that it has to do with an oval vs a "doglegged" caribiners.
I would have to venture a guess that these accidents are due to more and more people are climbing than ever before so there is just a higher probability of something happening such as back clipping. I have chatted with many people that are strong climbers but are gym climbers and have never really had to build an anchoror do any rope management. but when turned loose out side are left a bit over whelmed on what to do.

Although I have no evidence, I've always suspected that when a marginal piece initially holds and then fails it sets up a very dynamic situation with respect to the rope. Perhaps shock waves travel down the rope and potentially contribute to any unclipping problems.

A good analogy is when an arresting cable on an aircraft carrier breaks:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EX19sAudmic

Notice all the undulations and the serpentine, chaotic path the cable takes when viewed in slow motion. Not too hard to imagine a rope unclipping from a biner if it acts at all similar.

^^^^^ Brilliant. The shock waves can also contribute to microfractures in the rope.

^
can we talk about the reflexes on that guy who jumped the cable twice??? what an athlete

No doubt the guy that jumped the cable was on it!.........One rule of thumb would be to use a locker set up if you are committing to a move where you are close to an obvious hazard like the ground or a big ledge. What will happen if for some reason your last piece comes unclipped? Another good reason would be if you find yourself way run out and depending on one hot wire......maybe put a couple on the rope side(opposing). Its better than nothing.When i think i'm about to die,i down climb! "To take a whipper on a micro stopper onto a static sling or not to, THAT IS THE QUESTION".......answer use more lockers!

I always carry alot of extra biners and I do like to put extra opposites on pieces that are critical and are a position that I think are questionable.

I think you have a better chance of dying from rockfall or blowing out a cam than something like this happening. Literally not 1 but 2 biners unclipped itself, along with 2 marginal pieces above. Let's say the chances of the biners unclipping itself is like 1/1000, then 2 of them unclipping is 1/1000^2. If there was some systematic error in the way these were clipped, I think it would be good to know, but we will never know for sure now.

I recall someone once claiming that they saw an aid climber fall and unclip some 12 pieces in a row. Cant find the post but I know it's around somewhere. I still call BS on it though. Even if he was using iron for every piece, and he hooked a biner directly to the pin, and he backclipped every piece, 12 in a row is a real lottery winner.

I just want to throw this in here so that anyone that comes across this thread can find out what solutions are available.

credit to bearbreeder -
mountainproject.com/v/preve…

Be it rock end or rope end, use a locker or oppisite and opposed carabiners on the iffy/dangerous placements.

It may be a p.i.t.a., but what could a little effort and seconds do for you? Keep you more safe?

There was a post recently in the last year about another unclipping and the dude took a massive fall. Pretty sure it was unclipping, not breaking, but I could be mistaken. I would suspect in certain situations the possibilities are a lot higher then we think.

Richard,

I see what you are thinking with the shape and all…

Maybe it is not the shape, but the generalness that everything is so much lighter now.
A much heavier (this is just a thought in my head) carabiner will stay in its "normal" position on the extended shoulder sling better than a "newer - ultra light" carabiner. The newer lighter one flops around more… This is all real hard to say, and what happened to Wayne was pretty damn crazy/unheard of!
(There was pictures of him leading before the fall, and everything looked in order so to speak.)

I came across this video, nothing special, but it does remind us about how easy it can happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrlKLS9eK28

Another thought is that this "could" happen easier if the route is somewhat traversing rather than straight up. (Again, this is just a thought in my head) If the route is straight up, even with an extended shoulder sling the bottom carabiner will hang correctly. With a slight upward traverse it will be pulled, which is fine… The problem comes after the next subsquant pieces are in line, and the extended shoulder slings are not pulled taut by the rope any more. (the new upper pieces are doing that now..)

So I don't think it is the shape that causes the problem, but the possibility of any carabiner flopping around.

Hmm….

If your extending a piece with an alpine draw you can always put your racking Biner on the rope end too you have 2 biners opposite and opposed, seems quick and easy way to make sure the rope won't unclip

I have personally seen it while following a rising traverse (the second pitch of Iron Man at Rumney) The upward pull after the leader passed one of the bolts flipped the quickdraw up in such a way that it unclipped from the hanger. It was freaky for me in that I was looking at a huge pendulum over a razor edged roof. I basically figured I was soloing at that point. In this case I think a sling would have helped the situation as the rope would not have been able to raise it enough to flip the upper biner over the hanger. Of course a locker would have been even better.

M Sprague wrote:I have personally seen it while following a rising traverse (the second pitch of Iron Man at Rumney) The upward pull after the leader passed one of the bolts flipped the quickdraw up in such a way that it unclipped from the hanger. It was freaky for me in that I was looking at a huge pendulum over a razor edged roof. I basically figured I was soloing at that point. In this case I think a sling would have helped the situation as the rope would not have been able to raise it enough to flip the upper biner over the hanger. Of course a locker would have been even better.

I've had this happen several times. I don't consider it rare, rather something that can and will happen.

The unclipping rope end is some scary stuff and I would think way more likely on rising traverses. Rope falls over the gate with a little flutter and ur unclipped. The ultra light biners and thin dyneema slings would also play into it I suspect, less drag more movement of the end biner. The fact that it happened on two pieces in a row in Wayne's case should tell us its not rare and should be an expected outcome and mitigated.

Morgan Patterson wrote: I've had this happen several times. I don't consider it rare, rather something that can and will happen. The unclipping rope end is some scary stuff and I would think way more likely on rising traverses. Rope falls over the gate with a little flutter and ur unclipped. The ultra light biners and thin dyneema slings would also play into it I suspect, less drag more movement of the end biner. The fact that it happened on two pieces in a row in Wayne's case should tell us its not rare and should be an expected outcome and mitigated.

I think this is confirmation bias.

Not that climbers shouldn't take reasonable measures, like using a locker or doubling up in some circumstances. Climbing is risky after all.

Constant re-evaluation of best practices is a good thing. But the risk here is small.

Larry wrote: I think this is confirmation bias. Not that climbers shouldn't take reasonable measures, like using a locker or doubling up in some circumstances. Climbing is risky after all. Constant re-evaluation of best practices is a good thing. But the risk here is small.

The first one, draw rotation on a bolt I've experienced first hand several times in the last twenty years of my climbing. I can demonstrate it for myself and have watched it happen in situ so I don't think there's any confirmation bias in that... and the 2nd scenario can also be easily demonstrated, though the light gear hypothesizing could be confirmation bias I guess... hum. How would you explain two pieces in a row set similarly both coming clipped? Obviously its more common then lightening striking the same place... And having several reports a year about it (while possible different mechanisms, or possible the same) would to me, warrant some rethinking.

The accident in eldo was the biner unclipping from open loop slings, while the examples you mentioned are of biner unclipping from the rope attached to rigid dogbones. Please correct me if that's not correct. They are different cases, same outcome, but I don't think they should be grouped together.

One mitigation for the rope unclipping from a dogbone draw is to make sure the biner gate is facing away from the direction of rope travel. Admittedly this is hard to do in practice.

Sprague drifted to the rotating sport draw to which I was caught but yes, two different scenarios.

i've posted this before. i was belaying at the end of the first pitch on horn's mother while my friend was leading the 2nd pitch. below me, a young guy was leading the pitch and was almost through the crux when he fell, and the rope unclipped from the biner. he was pretty shocked. he looked up and asked if he had backclipped or anything like that. he was only 5, maybe 10 feet below me and i could see that he had everything clipped correctly. i told him everything looked good and that i was really surprised also.

so, he starts leading the pitch again. goes up, clips the biner in the cam, climbs a bit above and falls again. same thing happened. we were both really shocked. i watched the whole thing. the rope was clipped correctly, everything looked good. it happened so fast i couldn't see how or what occurred to cause the rope to unclip. the only thing i could think of was that the rope somehow fell through the air in an upside down "U" shape, instead of laying over the basket of the biner. (?).

this isn't the only time this sort of thing has happened. yes, the probability of it is really low, but it is still possible. IIRC there was a similar incident in little cottonwood canyon, maybe 5-10 years ago where a guy fell on a sport route, the rope unclipped, and he got killed. IIRC folks who were there said he had clipped correctly, etc.

having read about a lot of accidents over the years, it sounds like this type of thing happens maybe once a year or few years. obviously the bad accidents get the most notice, but there are probably some close calls also.