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Inexpensive bolt extractor


Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,321

If you are looking for the heavy duty spiral taps that work best to extract Rawl sleeves, look here:

http://discount-tools.com/rfn-106fb.cfm

heavy duty spiral taps for removing Rawl sleeves

Western Tool Supply is another option:
westtool.com/products/CUTTI…

9mm taps and dies are harder to find, but the jury is still out on whether or not they are more successful at removing rusty 3/8" sleeves. The sleeves tend to tear apart and the 9mm is ~0.020" smaller than 3/8", leaving a tiny bit more metal.
I haven't yet tried a M9 heavy duty spiral tap. I'll report back if I can find one.

Thomas Beck · · Las Vegas, Nevada · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,040

i took a standard 3/8 and 1/2 tap with your pipe tool extractor to the granite crags on Saturday and was unsuccessful in extracting the sleeves of Rawl 5 piece 1/2" bolts which had been placed about 5 years ago in a desert environment.

Someone has been stealing the hardware for the hangers and chain sets.

Couldn't get the taps to take in anything but the blue sleeves. The expansion sleeve is wedged in the hole for sure. Pick tool would not budge it. I could knock the cones down however. Must be I need the spiral bit bottoming taps.

I was able to reuse 3 of the holes however with a same length bolt glued in and screwed into the cone. 1/2" x 3 1/2". Overkill for desert granite.

Still on the learning curve for these sleeve anchors.

Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,321
Thomas Beck wrote:[...]Still on the learning curve for these sleeve anchors.
Get the spiral taps - the 3/8" rusty Rawls are the most difficult and the 1/2" Rawls are easier than 3/8" studs. As long as the cone isn't rusted solid to the bolt, I'm up to about 98% confidence of success on the 1/2" removals. Cut as many threads as possible on the 3/8" sleeves to keep them from tearing apart. Gary Ballard suggests knocking the sleeve 1/16" deeper into the hole with a hammer blow just before pulling to help un-stick it.
rocknice2 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 3,129
Thomas Beck wrote:i took a standard 3/8 and 1/2 tap with your pipe tool extractor to the granite crags on Saturday and was unsuccessful in extracting the sleeves of Rawl 5 piece 1/2" bolts which had been placed about 5 years ago in a desert environment. Someone has been stealing the hardware for the hangers and chain sets. Couldn't get the taps to take in anything but the blue sleeves. The expansion sleeve is wedged in the hole for sure. Pick tool would not budge it. I could knock the cones down however. Must be I need the spiral bit bottoming taps. I was able to reuse 3 of the holes however with a same length bolt glued in and screwed into the cone. 1/2" x 3 1/2". Overkill for desert granite. Still on the learning curve for these sleeve anchors.
It sounds like you pushed the cone back, didn't take out the sleeves and then glued in a bolt.
If that is the case it may not be safe, at all.
Thomas Beck · · Las Vegas, Nevada · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,040

"It sounds like you pushed the cone back, didn't take out the sleeves and then glued in a bolt.
If that is the case it may not be safe, at all."
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Can you explain a bit more and why?

I got out the top sleeve and the blue sleeve. I brushed out and blew out the holes several times. These 1/2" x 3 1/2" placements were vertical on a flat horizontal ledge. Once epoxy was in the hole, I was able to thread the cone and tap it to the bottom of the hole

The Granite is like good quality Joshua Tree quartz monzonite. The bolt threads were run through a die to expose clean metal and the length of the bolt was wire brushed on a grinder. I had the glue nozzle all the way in the hole and turned the bolt to spread the epoxy. I got some small amount of squeeze out.

I agree, I wouldn't do this on a vertical or overhanging placement.

I am new to glue in's...I'm sure you guessed by now... but have been "retroing' studs and button heads for years; replacing with another sleeve bolt.

Greegger, I dinked around with a pick tool and the taps for about an hour. I could sit on the anchor ledge and work on the placements. Couldn't get very far and finally gave up to work on some other placements. Spirals when I can afford them now.

I did rap off another glued station (new holes though) on Sunday and am here to ask more questions...so that's good.

I'll take some pictures next time.

There's a basalt area near me which has a lot of volcanic tuff walls and towers. I like to do some lines there but I'm sure I need glue in's. Though I have a long history of using West Systems epoxy with wood and concrete, I am not so confident gluing into chossy rock. For that I'm thinking I'd use a fixe or climb-tech twisted wire bolt. Am I on track here with the hardware?

J W · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,601

Thomas-

I'm not aware of any glue-ins that have threads- what kind of bolt did you glue into that hole?

My big concern here would be that with the sleeve and cone still in the hole, you won't have gotten a full bonding of the glue and the rock, thus quite possibly compromising the placement and the bond.

Glue-ins are really really dependent on a super clean hole with nothing to prevent the glue from bonding to both the rock and bolt.

As to your question on hardware- imho, in the desert, any stainless glue-in is fine. The iffier the rock, the longer you want the glue-in to be. I prefer the Climb-Techs since they are so easy to work with, but the Fixe's are fine too. The more important bit is the glue- just make sure you're using the proper glue for a given bolt.

rocknice2 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 3,129

So you did leave the bottom sleeve in the hole.
The problem is that now the bolt is glued only partially at the top to the rock and at the bottom to only the sleeve. Further you pushed the cone back so it's no longer wedging against the sleeve.
A 1\2" sleeve should have been easy to remove. Did you tap it before you pushed the cone back? Possible that the sleeve was spinning inside the rock as you tried to tap it.

Thomas Beck · · Las Vegas, Nevada · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,040
rocknice2 wrote:So you did leave the bottom sleeve in the hole. The problem is that now the bolt is glued only partially at the top to the rock and at the bottom to only the sleeve. Further you pushed the cone back so it's no longer wedging against the sleeve. A 1\2" sleeve should have been easy to remove. Did you tap it before you pushed the cone back? Possible that the sleeve was spinning inside the rock as you tried to tap it.
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Well I agree with your points. If the placement had been in any other orientation besides shear I wouldn't have done it this way. With a hanger on there is about 85mm of bolt. I know the hole is at least 90mm deep. I am not 100% sure I caught and thread the cone. I was gluing at 50°F which is bottom of acceptable range for this epoxy. The adhesive was slow running and there was a lot of drag. Near as I can guess the expansion cone begins about 40mm down or more in the hole. As I said, I worked on taping it for some time. The expansion sleeve was not spinning. I couldn't move it with my pick tool. I tapped the cone down before trying to tap the expansion sleeve. Was this the wrong thing to do?

To John. The construction industry uses threaded rod as a standard for glue in placements in concrete. I used (in this case) Grade 8 non stainless machine bolts which are not completely threaded. I did wire brush them, ground a small spiral groove about 25mm long above the threads. I was concerned to grind higher thinking I might create a stress riser. I placed one bolt which I was not happy with and pulled and discarded it. This is the photo along with a prepared bolt.

You see the epoxy took well to the metal. I was able to move the glued washer with a few hammer blows. I chipped off a thin glued spot on the shaft. The metal was smooth underneath. I'm guessing the bonding was minimal on smooth metal. The bond on the threads and ground area was chip-able but adhesive remained in the threads. The adhesive was Powers Pure 50+

I wish someone local had a pull testing set up. I appreciate everyone's input as I am learning.

Epoxy covered bolt

After chipping and moving the washer. you can see the smooth area with no adhesion. Below that there is adhesion.

A prepped Grade 8 bolt next to the adhesive covered bolt
Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175

Now I know why I feel better clipping a nut than a bolt. Logically, it doesn't make sense, and yet - it totally makes sense.

Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,321
M Hanna · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 5

Anyone tried the spinner method on SS wedgies? My apologies if already addressed.

M.Hanna

Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,321

I haven't yet, but I will do some tests in the next couple of weeks and report back.
Since SS is stretchy it will probably be trickier to tell whether the collar is sliding or the bolt shaft is stretching. I think an ideal design would have a spacer that crushes at a known maximum force to indicate when to back off and resume spinning.

M Hanna · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 5

Thanks GreggerMan

I'll be playing with this setup as well in the coming weeks.

Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,321

I made a new version of the C-clamp tool today (AKA 'The Doodad' puller v2.0).
Cutting external 1/2-20 threads is easier than drilling and tapping a 3/8-16 hole down the center.
Matt's Spinner tool can then attach directly to the end of the puller so the same modified coupling nut can be used to both spin and pull a stud bolt. This gets around a problem I've had where a stubborn bolt is rotating freely in the hole but stuck to the spinner tool - the only way to free it is to somehow get needle nosed vice grips on the little bit of bolt between the rock and the front edge of the coupling nut. With the set screw on the side you can pinch the bolt at any useful depth. Switch to pulling without needing to unscrew the spinner tool. Streamlined process.
You will need to upgrade to a 1" square spacer pipe and a 1/2" square nut to index it. I cut fine threads in a coarse threaded square nut which looks a little ugly, but the torsion isn't great enough to strip it (I hope). I may need to special order a 1/2-20 square nut (they aren't common).
Email me if you are making one and have questions.

Doodad Puller v 2.0 I cut 1/2-20 external threads instead of tapping a 3/8-16 hole. Easier to manufacture and it compliments the spinner tool. 1" square pipe instead of 3/4" to get clearance for the coupling nut.

Improved spinner: Per Matt Reeser's suggestion I added a set screw on the side since the internal one gets jammed. Remove the set screw and SDS chuck adapter after spinning, use the same coupling nut for pulling.

M Hanna · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 5

As far as a force indicator on the ss bolts perhaps a Belleville washer would work. You can get them in prescribed values to flatten the washer from grainger or McMaster carr. Awesome upgrade to the doodad!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle…

Mh

Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,321
Greg Kuchyt · · Richmond, VT · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 924
M Hanna wrote:Anyone tried the spinner method on SS wedgies? My apologies if already addressed. M.Hanna
I've removed a half dozen or so, though they were of unknown manufacturer. They came out incredibly easy. The sleeves broke in the hole after only a few seconds of spinning and came out with a puller easily. Though this was in schist which is medium-soft. I've pulled a Mammut double-wedge with a hammer and funkness device only! One of the other locals pulled some of these same bolts with the claw of a hammer!!

SS wedges pulled with spinning technique.

These may have been Redhead wedge bolts based on the look.

We pulled them because we didn't know what kind of bolt they were and the rest of the cliff got replaced with 12mm glue-ins.
Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,321

On Thursday last week I made a couple more Doodad bolt extractors for some local Denver climbers and filmed the process. This is the Doodad 2.1 made from slightly better materials. Still costs less than $50 per tool. The steps required to make one are outlined here:
youtube.com/watch?v=ZxQKIYg…

M Hanna · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 5

Hey all-

I finally got some time to make a version of the Doodad- Thanks for all the R&D Greg!

A couple things I did differently:

For the spinner, I just cut off an old SDS 1/4" bit short, drilled out a 3/8" coupler nut to fit the shank, and gave it a couple good tack welds

On the puller, I just drilled out the c clamp and inserted a modified 1/2" coupler nut to receive a 1/2 x 13 allthread.

Rather than finding a square nut (30 mile round trip to hardware store), I just tacked some shim plates to a 1/2 coupler nut to provide a good fit to the tube stock

It was easy enough to make a 1/2" to 3/8" adapter for the final connection to anchor. This makes it removeable/replaceable if it gets stripped.I use anti-seize for the main shaft and connection to anchor, this would be particularly important to prevent thread galling in SS bolts.

All in all, not as elegant as the most up to date Doodad, but not bad for just using what I had around. I successfully pulled a couple Hilti Kwikbolts with it in bullet hard granite. My understanding is that these are some of the strongest wedgies available.

Hillybilly doodad

Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,321

Very cool M Hanna.
The final revision of the spinner tool is a version that requires no machining:

SDS drill chuck adapter + 1/2-20 x 1.75"L coupling nut + ReNuThread insert + 1/2-20 set screw

I made 60 of them for the ASCA.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Fixed Hardware: Bolts & Anchors
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