"prussiking" without any slings or cords


Original Post
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 25

with all discussion about REI, Obama, and the decline or morality in general

a few people have asked me how i ascend, escape the belay or backup my raps without any slings/cords ... probably sport weenies who only carry quickdraws =P

i do apologize for doing this off my 20 kn fence posts ... i usually do this at the crag, but im a lazy bum this week

heres how i do it ...

just a warning, how you do it is your own bizniss ... and this is in no way a "how to" guide, and youll die anyways if you learn how to do this on the intrawebs ... i am assuming a decent level of experience

first of all let me introduce the penberthy hitch ... names after mr penberthy of MSR i believe ...

to tie it on a cord

1. grab an armful of cord and tie an overhand on a bight

penberthy on cord step 1

2. place it on both strands (were assuming your either backing up or ascending a rap here) and place the knot at the bottom, wrap the free strand around the rope ABOVE the knot ... usually 4-5 turns on cord will do the trick, add more wraps for more holding power

make sure the wraps are NEAT and SNUG

penberthy on cord step 2

3. put the free strand through the eye of the overhand

penberthy on cord step 3

4. heres what a tied penberthy should look like

penberthy on cord step voila !!!

now you may be telling yourself here "WTF are you smoking bearbreeder, you have an effing cord here ... you lying cheating, obama voting, bear fcukang, top rope gumbie !!!"

well my fellow MPers, the nice thing about the penberthy is that it generally works on the SAME SIZE cord of the ropes ... you just need to increase the number of wraps

remember that in rappel situations you have TWO FREE STRANDS of the rope ... the tails ... so if you need to re-ascend or backup your wraps, its a snap (hey that rhymes!!!)

now if yr tied in and following the very cute sasha digulian up bellavista on the those massive overhands, and fall ... yr still screwed as you have no free end ... but at least youre stuck on a mountain side with sasha when you die =P

heres the setup for ropes ... in reality you would use the tailends of the same rope ... i just used a different rope for clarity

also note that the orange rope is a 10mm mammut galaxy and the green a 10.2mm tendon ambition

10.2mm on 10mm penberthy hitch

here is the same setup on a SINGLE strand ... note that depending on the stiffness of the rope you may want more wraps for more friction ... i advise you to experiment before you use it in a real life situation where you could die horribly

this is of course quite useful if you need to escape the belay without any cord/slings ... you can always use the side tail

penberthy 10mm/10.2mm single strand

heres an ascension rig if you need to re-ascend your rap ... though in reality you would make the top free strands longer for a foot loop ...

note that you want to stop and set this up around 15 feet BEFORE the end of your rope

ascension rig penberthy, 10mm same rope

one note about the penberthy is that it is often load releasable if you grab the top and apply pressure like such ... so dont grab the knot when ascending

but for rescue situations you should always tie the munter mule to insure releasability

this of course means that you should always BACKUP your rig when ascending with fig 8s every so many feet ... as if the top knot slips it can hit the knot at yr waist and realease it as well ...

release penberthy

and thats how I do it folks

time to scam some food stamps now

;)

Bill Kirby · · Baltimore Maryland · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 40

What do you need to learn all that for? My cell phone worked great from the top of the Chief to almost Cal Creek! Haha..

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 25
Kirby1013 wrote: What do you need to learn all that for? My cell phone worked great from the top of the Chief to almost Cal Creek! Haha..
well if u want the free whirly bird sightseeing tour

;)
Bill Kirby · · Baltimore Maryland · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 40

I always figured if I got into trouble SAR would walk across 99 from town to come get me. I thought I be able to relay on one of the dozen or so people watching me with binoculars by the bridge crossing the Sea to Sky to see my smoke signals! Wait.. that only happens on weekends.

Seriously, Bearbreeder, What do you carry for self rescue? I carry two autoblocks (plus a one I rap so three), a PAS and a spare ATC. I know I could carry less but I'm a Noob. Plus I'm feel comfortable I can escape a belay, jug up to grab broken ankle boy and then descend with him/her.

T

Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 763
bearbreeder wrote: a few people have asked me how i ascend, escape the belay or backup my raps without any slings/cords


bearbreeder wrote: 1. grab an armful of cord
Ummm...
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 25
Kirby1013 wrote: I always figured if I got into trouble SAR would walk across 99 from town to come get me. I thought I be able to relay on one of the dozen or so people watching me with binoculars by the bridge crossing the Sea to Sky to see my smoke signals! Wait.. that only happens on weekends. Seriously, Bearbreeder, What do you carry for self rescue? I carry two autoblocks (plus a one I rap so three), a PAS and a spare ATC. I know I could carry less but I'm a Noob. Plus I'm feel comfortable I can escape a belay, jug up to grab broken ankle boy and then descend with him/her. T
the reality is that if your at the top of a long pitch you may have almost no gear

IMO you should be able to escape and get out with no more than a spare biner or two and perhaps a single sling

the penberthy is one item that allows you to use the rope for friction knots when you used up all the slings on the pitch

its like the munter, anchoring in with the rope, biner brakeetc ... and other skills that allow you to use less gear where you dont have said gear ... or your partner dropped it while being mauled by a crag bear that inhabits the ledges

;)
Bill Kirby · · Baltimore Maryland · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 40
bearbreeder wrote: the reality is that if your at the top of a long pitch you may have almost no gear IMO you should be able to escape and get out with no more than a spare biner or two and perhaps a single sling the penberthy is one item that allows you to use the rope for friction knots when you used up all the slings on the pitch its like the munter, anchoring in with the rope, biner brakeetc ... and other skills that allow you to use less gear where you dont have said gear ... or your partner dropped it while being mauled by a crag bear that inhabits the ledges ;)
Thanks.. lots to think about now.
Dan Felix · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 30

A simple tautline hitch has worked for decades for those in the arborist trade. I, myself, prefer a Blake's hitch to a tautline for ascending. And the better part is, both can be done with a lot less than 15 feet of rope.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 25
Dan Felix wrote:A simple tautline hitch has worked for decades for those in the arborist trade. I, myself, prefer a Blake's hitch to a tautline for ascending. And the better part is, both can be done with a lot less than 15 feet of rope.
ahh ... but the 15 feet includes the loop coming back and what you need for the leg loop ...and what you need to tie off the device, assuming prussic

in reality its quite a bit less ... but regardless the key is to plan for it before hitting the knot at the end of your rope

the best thing about the penberthy is that its VERY easy to remember .... tie it a few times and youll never forget it

;)
Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 511

I had hope and thought there could be change. Then I realized if you promised a reduction in cord usage you really mean an exponential growth. Next, your wife is going to tell us what to eat on long routes. And that no American climber should excel above climbers of other nations. Then, if we get to the top of a route, we didn't get there by ourselves.

Looks like a Flemhiest... Eh hem. Klemhiest (needed to clear my throat) with a twist.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 25

ive received a few questions about the penberthy

here is the key to tying it IMO ... the strand needs to wrap around snugly and go into the hole with that twist over the coils ... this locks it in place

wrap around and in the hole

here it is under body weight with 4 wraps on 8mm mammut phoenix half rope

under load 8mm 4 wraps

to release it give a slight pull on the strand going into the hole with yr thumb

releasing penberthy

a stiffer rope like my seen some mileage mammut 9.5mm infinity may require more wraps ... this may also make it a bit harder to release the hitch ... but it still holds body weight just fine if you snug up the knot properly

9.5mm penberthy under load 5 wraps

now some arborist have recommended the blakes hitch ... which works quite well ... the problem is that can lazy climbers who practice rescue once a year if they are diligent remember a knot they will rarely use? ...

with a simple autoblock/kleimheist/hedden knot, id say yes ... ive had 2 people this year tell me they remembered how to tie a kleimheist that i showed them years ago how to tie and they rarely use as sport climbers/TR tough guys and gals ... IMO the penberthy is simple and similar enough that if you know one of the above knots, youll remember it with minimal practice

in fact for rap safety one could easily have newer climbers carry a single strand with loops ... its superior knot for that application IMO because you can vary the friction by 1 strand vs 2 for the prussic/kleimheist .. mr penberthy i believe introduce the knot for this specific application

mr fasulo in "self rescue 2nd edition" had this to say ...

self rescue 2nd pt1
self rescue 2nd pt2
self rescue 2nd pt3

darn it ... they just vote to revoke food stamps for "scammers" ... in V. HUNGRY !!!

;)

Noah.J · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 393

In a pinch I've modified tying a taut line hitch into a prussik tied with the end of the rope. Four wraps per side seems like the minimum I'd trust, for what it's worth I'm not sure I'd trust it with a live load, but it's easy to evaluate for someone familiar with prussiking.

Prussik with end of rope

Andy P. · · Wisconsin · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 50

Noah, I have also used the modified tautline as you pictured. Someone taught this to me a while back as the "stitch prusik." Although it may be more difficult to move up and down the line, it seems like a better solution to me as it is extremely easy for most climbers (I would think) to properly evaluate if it is tied correctly, will it hold, etc. I guess if you are familiar enough with other knots and confident in their use like the OP, one should go with those.

Noah.J · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 393

After thinking this over for a bit, I rigged a weighted setup, and after testing a few different options, I found it easier to use the penberthy. It's simple to think of it as basically an in-line kleimheist. Doing this I was able to easily rig a 3:1 with both truck and progress capture friction hitches using only ~15' of rope end and a few biners.

Thanks for the idea Mr. bearbreeder!

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 25

its actually more of a single strand hedden since the eye is at the bottom, not at the top like a kleimheist

but you get the idea ... its quite easy to remember how to tie

glad u found it of use

as a side note ... the hedden knot will hold on even nylon slings on my 8mm mammut phoenix, as well as with dyneema slings ... while a 4 wrap kleimheist will slip

IMO as rope get thinner and thinner we should start figuring out what knots and materials work with those skinny lines ...

remember that many of the rescue and other commonly cited tests are done on 10.5mm+ lines

;)

4 wrap hedden holding body weight on a 8mm mammut phoenix

Bill Kirby · · Baltimore Maryland · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 40

Gotta make me Google Hedden knot.. I see how it is. Haha..

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 25

one interesting thing about the hedden is that you can turn it into a knot with an ABSURD amount of gripping power, but still be fairly releasable ... all with a slight variation

basically you do one wrap UNDER the eye, then the rest above like a hedden

mr. prohaska published this two decades ago

nylon highway #30 pt1

nylon highway #30 pt2

"pleasurable" knots ... hmmmmm =P

proof in the pudding ... heres 25mm nylon holding body weight just fine with 1 wrap under and two wraps over ... on old 7mm stiff cord no less !!!

25mm sling body weight on 7mm nylon cord, modified hedden

so if you ever need to jug back up a single half/twin ... or your tag line ...

;)

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 545

I pull out my Scotty because his transwarp theory is correct

--I've never beamed three people from two targets onto one pad before!

Bill Kirby · · Baltimore Maryland · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 40
bearbreeder wrote:one interesting thing about the hedden is that you can turn it into a knot with an ABSURD amount of gripping power, but still be fairly releasable ... all with a slight variation basically you do one wrap UNDER the eye, then the rest above like a hedden mr. prohaska published this two decades ago "pleasurable" knots ... hmmmmm =P proof in the pudding ... heres 25mm nylon holding body weight just fine with 1 wrap under and two wraps over ... on old 7mm stiff cord no less !!! so if you ever need to jug back up a single half/twin ... or your tag line ... ;)
Thanks! Definitely interested in tying one with webbing.
Andy P. · · Wisconsin · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 50

I tried the Penberthy last night on a whim at the gym, and even with just the foggy memory of the picture I saw in this thread I found it easy to tie first time - so I am now a believer it could work for me. I will do some experiments this weekend at the crag, I am looking forward to it.

bearbreeder - this is a cool thread, can we start a biweekly bearbreeder column in which we get tech tips from you? I wish there were more people like you on the internet spreading knowledge instead of hoarding it. We could call it "bear's nifty tricks" or something!

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 25
Andy P. wrote:I tried the Penberthy last night on a whim at the gym, and even with just the foggy memory of the picture I saw in this thread I found it easy to tie first time - so I am now a believer it could work for me. I will do some experiments this weekend at the crag, I am looking forward to it. bearbreeder - this is a cool thread, can we start a biweekly bearbreeder column in which we get tech tips from you? I wish there were more people like you on the internet spreading knowledge instead of hoarding it. We could call it "bear's nifty tricks" or something!
lol .. im a lazy 5.4 intraweb scammer ... so im probably not qualified

one thing about the pemberthy ... there is a trick to tying it so that it holds on stiff ropes of the same size ... basically you wrap it around the rope going up and then wrap it once or twice back down the rope going down ... this locks the coils into place and significantly increases the holding power

ill put up a post with pics later today or tmr with the details ...

i might be headed out this weekend in the rain to practice basic rescue ... if i do make it out, im gonna test some of these knots under body weight with the good ole squamish mud on the ropes

;)
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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