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Draws Stolen after left due to thunderstorm July 3rd, Easter Rock


Original Post
James Glover · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 5

On the evening of July 3rd my partner and I were at Easter Rock waiting our turn to climb when a thunderstorm rolled in with a lot of close lightening, a friend of ours had six draws on Tell Tale Heart. We all bailed and planned to return at 7am on the 4th. There were a couple parties there, all seemed to be bailing to get out of the storm. It was not safe to climb. My partner and I returned at 7am today to climb and retrieve the draws. They were gone. The draws were not left as project draws, they were left in a storm. If one of the parties remaining after we left took them then that is extremely disappointing, as they had to know we bailed due to the storm. It would be greatly appreciated to get these draws back to their owner. There are loads of threads about project draws etc on this site, this was not the case, unless the intent was to get them down and return them, this was out and out theft.

ZANE · · Cleveland, OH · Joined May 2011 · Points: 25

Sounds like booty! Would you bail from a storm and leave rap anchors, and then when someone did the route the next day and removed them proceed to call them thieves? #Runonsentence

That being said, I wouldn't have taken the draws. I would probably take them down and leave them hanging somewhere. I hate seeing draws hanging.

James Glover · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 5

There was no one there this morning when we arrived, I highly doubt that anyone was there this morning before us. Is it possible? I suppose, but highly unlikely. Most likely it was a party there last night.

Pete Spri · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 170

I think people's definition of stolen is a little much. I'm sorry for your loss, but I would not consider them stolen. Left by you on public land and taken by another group? Yeah, definately.

Jon Zucco · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 245

it sucks, but yeah... knowing most people, I would've tried to leave as little gear as possible.

James Glover · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 5

I didn't intend to start a thread debating all the usual bs with this crowd, theft vs non theft. (even though I expected it...thanks for not disappointing) I was just hoping that whoever took them would return them. My friend didn't leave them because he wanted to or as project draws, he bailed in a lightening storm.

Jack Sparrow · · denver, co · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 1,515

This is ridiculous hanging draws are not booty, people who take down draws are the lowest of the low. Karma's a bitch and if you take down draws, you got something bad coming your way.TO ALL YOU DRAW THIEVES, I CLIMB IN BO CAN ALL THE TIME AND IF I EVER WITNESS DRAWS BEING STOLEN THAT PERSON IS GONNA GET THERE ASS KICKED. THIS HAS TO STOP FIXED DRAWS ARE NOT BOOTY. DRAW THIEVES BEWARE CAUSE I'M LOOKING FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pinklebear · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 3,065

This is ridiculous fixed draws are not booty, people who take down fixed draws are the lowest of the low. Karmas a bitch and if you take down draws, you got something bad coming your way. TO ALL YOU DRAW THEIFS, I CLIMB IN BO CAN ALL THE TIME AND IF I EVER WITNESS DRAWS BEING STOLEN THAT PERSON IS GONNA GET THERE ASS KICKED. THIS HAS TO STOP FIXED DRAWS ARE NOT BOOTY. DRAW THEIVES BEWARE CAUSE IM LOOKING FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly, what Jack said -- this was theft, out and out. James, I hope you get your draws back. Totally lame that other climbers would do this.
redlude97 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 5

On the evening of July 3rd my partner and I were at Easter Rock waiting our turn to climb when a thunderstorm rolled in with a lot of close lightening, a friend of ours had six draws on Tell Tale Heart. We all bailed and planned to return at 7am on the 4th. There were a couple parties there, all seemed to be bailing to get out of the storm. It was not safe to climb. My partner and I returned at 7am today to climb and retrieve the draws. They were gone. The draws were not left as project draws, they were left in a storm. If one of the parties remaining after we left took them then that is extremely disappointing, as they had to know we bailed due to the storm. It would be greatly appreciated to get these draws back to their owner. There are loads of threads about project draws etc on this site, this was not the case, unless the intent was to get them down and return them, this was out and out theft.
Since when did bailing in bad weather =/= booty? Every time I've retreated in bad weather on a multipitch and left cams/nuts I've considered them left booty...
James Glover · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 5

Climbing grades are subjective, as is the idea of what is booty and what is not. Leaving one biner/one anchor is one thing, leaving a whole rack of draws is another. On this particular route hanging and retrieving draws is not difficult, anyone who can climb .12 and take the draws knows this. In this situation, provided no one stumbled across the quickdraws after 9pm or before 7am (which is possible), they knew the draws weren't booty. Add to that most climbers capable of taking them also would know they weren't booty.

For all of those folks claiming anything left on public land is fair game, why are you not bootying cars all winter? Every snow storm there are piles of cash to be made cleaning up the roads and getting those eye sores out of the way. Just because it is easier to steal something does not make it right.

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,110

Are you sure they didn't just 'melt away' from the rock and fall to the ground? Easter Rock is pretty soft after any real rain...

ABB · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 0

Since when did bailing in bad weather =/= booty? Every time I've retreated in bad weather on a multipitch and left cams/nuts I've considered them left booty...

The bottom line is that everyone makes their own decision about removing/keeping gear and both they and their mother should feel comfortable with that decision. Most people differentiate between leaving rap anchors on a multi-pitch route vs. leaving draws on a 50' sport route about 150' from the highway.

Now if your thinking leads you to believe the guys had no intention of returning to collect their gear, I'll ask you to reconsider your thinking.

I'd like to think the draw-takers haven't had the chance to post on the 'Found' page. About the only thing worse than one person removing draws is a complicit belayer. Moral turpitude x2?

We don't really need to have a conversation here about what constitutes right or wrong, do we? Aren't we, as a community, beyond that?
Josh Janes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2001 · Points: 8,677

I don't know... The OP's group bailed in the rain, but some other group toughed it out and figured out a way to get the draws down - perhaps even climbing the route.

Then the OP gets online and cops a bunch of 'tude and slings accusations of theft rather than politely and humbly asking for the draws/offering a reward.

Leaving gear for whatever reason sucks - it happens to all of us, and it sucks even more when you make a good effort to go back for it and its gone, but you gotta own it. Every time I've left gear, for whatever reason, I accept the possibility that it'll be gone later.

Maybe the people who took your draws were actually trying to help you, logged on to MP today to post that they had your lost draws, and then read your self righteous rant and said "to hell with this guy."

I wasn't there but it seems like when you started hearing the thunder you probably made a choice to keep climbing to the last minute knowing you could get yourself in a situation like this and now you're blaming everyone but yourself. Your intentions may have been clear to you - but they might not have been to the others present. I generally find most climbers to be pretty nice in person and willing to go out of their way to help others... Why not start from that premise before jumping to conclusions? A simple announcement of your situation/plan to the others climbing that day almost certainly would have saved you a lot of grief.

Despite this I hope you do get your gear back, but as the saying goes you can catch more flies with honey.

Rick Carpenter · · Marion, NC · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 1,085

Booty booty booty. Haha sucks but don't bail on 6 draws. If perma draws are not required (usually not) then that shit is ripe for the taking by anyone who can climb the route. I prefer not to see that shit hanging so my rack will only grow

chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

Booty is stupidest climbing word in a sea of bad words. People that are proud of taking peoples gear... sad individuals.

Jay Bauer · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 5

Leaving gear, is gear left to the mercy of whoever finds it. If you don't secure your things, someone else will.

chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

Damn right. Climbers have the proud tradition of taking each others stuff. Kind of like toddlers in a sandbox.

Tyler b. · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0

hey guys, those were my draws. the crag was busy and everyone but one group ended up bailing because lightning was close and getting closer. james was nice enough to offer to grab them for me in the morning the following day because it was getting late and i couldn't make it up to easter rock the next day.

the draws are a couple alpine draws (blue and green slings), one white metolious dyneema draw with camp carabiners, and some newer petzl spirit dogbones (short and long) with various older carabiners in them. i think there's five of them total.

while i don't care to stoke a long, circular conversation about ethics i strangely feel the need to state my opinion (because its a forum i guess) . anyways, ive been climbing for last ten years at a lot of different sport crags and have never seen multiple hanging draws on a route considered as booty. this was an unfortunate lesson to learn. i still will not grab hanging draws and probably won't leave them up anymore in the future.

please contact me about the draws if you have them. im not real mad or anything like that. this just kind of sucks and i'd really appreciate getting those back.

if the remaining party that evening grabbed them in effort to help, thank you guys. once again, james, thanks for offering to help and its too bad it resulted in putting you in a weird situation.

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,110

i believe he's talking about BoCan's Easter Rock rather than the one in GotG.

OOps, I saw Colorado and only knew of GG's Easter Rock. Sorry,,,guessing the other one has quality rock and not melting rainstorm quality sandstone.
Slartibartfast · · Magrathea · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0

it seems like when you started hearing the thunder you probably made a choice to keep climbing to the last minute knowing you could get yourself in a situation like this and now you're blaming everyone but yourself.

...and that's why I'm a fan of the booty system: it reminds us not to get in over our heads.

Of course, it'd probably be best if it was, oh, I don't know, the fear of falls and rockslides and avalanches and death that made us back off; but mostly we're to stupid to worry as much about that. On the other hand, the fear of losing a quickdraw or, heaven forbid, a cam might just be the extra push your normal cheapo climber needs to head for the car before the rain hits or the sun goes down. Mild consequences are a great teacher.

The first and last booty I ever lost was from staying out too late without a headlamp. Rather than keep working the route and making my belayer catch me all night in the dark, I lowered and left 2 draws behind. I came back the next day, and they were gone. Funny part is that, later that day, I saw them hanging on some guys harness. We talked for a while, but I never mentioned the draws. Mostly, I was embarrassed about having left 2 whole draws instead of a biner or two.

The OP makes a big deal stating that they were "not left as project draws." If they're not project draws, and they're not booty, then what else is there? To be fair, if I saw 5 draws hanging I would assume "project" and leave them alone. Also, if I took some gear, even if I absolutely considered it fair game, I would give it back if I knew for sure whose it was.
James Glover · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 5

I don't know... The OP's group bailed in the rain, but some other group toughed it out and figured out a way to get the draws down - perhaps even climbing the route.

I had decided to let this thread go but Josh, this part of your post is so out of touch I had to respond. Are you really saying that if you're tougher than other people you deserve to take their stuff? Seriously?

I wasn't there but it seems like when you started hearing the thunder you probably made a choice to keep climbing to the last minute knowing you could get yourself in a situation like this and now you're blaming everyone but yourself.

You are right. You weren't there. The draws were up, no one was climbing at the moment. The storm blew in quick. It wasn't really safe to retrieve them. Hope it never happens to you. They aren't even my quick draws, I just observed another climber who I met that day have to bail due to weather. I offered to get them in the morning. It really irritated me to return early the next day to see that they were gone. It is a sad reflection of our community that someone, who likely saw us bail due to the weather, took them. Sadder still that so many climbers here validate, almost laud, their behavior.

I'll repeat Tyler's post, if the remaining party that evening grabbed them in effort to help, thank you guys and sorry for jumping to conclusions. I did look for the draws at the cliff and check the forums before posting.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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