Crossfit and Rockclimbing

I've been going to the gym on a regular basis now for about 6 years and always did more of a bodybuilder style routine (heavier weight, 10, 8, 6, 4 for reps for each lift). Five months ago I got the rock climbing bug and was climbing in Joshua Tree Nat. Park about 5 days a week with a buddy. I didn't want to give up going to the gym so I tried to lift in the mornings and climb in the afternoons. Well literally the 3rd day of trying this I got tendinitis in both of my elbows.

So as a result, I took 3 months off from the gym and only rock climbed (didn't want to give up climbing). The tendinitis appears to be gone so I've started to get back into the gym, this time giving Crossfit a try. I wanted to base my workouts around becoming a better rock climber and Crossfit seemed the way to go.

My question is, for those of you that are avid "Crossfitters," how do you guys incorporate climbing into your weekly workout routines? I'm trying to avoid injury this time around. I am stationed at the Marine Corps Base here in Twentynine Palms, CA and we have a rock climbing gym on base that I could utilize as well.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan

Dan, I did Crossfit for a couple years but quit this spring. Crossfit is great if your general fitness is low or if you have some extra body fat that you want to get rid of. If you are already generally fit, then Crossfit will not do anything of note to your climbing performance, especially since you are just starting out. If you want to get better at climbing, focus on climbing right now since you have only been climbing for 5 months. If you like lifting and doing Crossfit, then go for it.

"Crossfit" these days is as generic as "training for climbing". There are so many boxes and they all do something different. Some coaches suck, some are really good. Some will focus on longer workouts, some will do only 12 minutes or less workouts. Be careful if you aren't familiar with some of the movements. Doing oly lifts while gassed is a recipe for injury if you aren't careful and the coach isn't paying attention.

I did Crossfit for a while to increase my general fitness and become more durable. When I quit, I lost 8 lbs in 2 weeks! Crossfit for me, was such an intense metabolic hit that I was eating a ton to recover. This added weight. I was also so sore all the time that it took away from training for climbing.

My suggestion, do Crossfit if you like it. If you are doing it for climbing performance, don't bother. You also may want to look into Rob Shaul at Mountain Athlete and Military Athlete. His work is outstanding and he focuses on outside performance, not how fast you can complete a workout.

As far as cults, there are worse ones to join.

Definitely stop the body-building style regimens, detrimental to climbing. Weights can be good if you design a program that pushes your CV and lactic acid levels. Focus on resistance, high reps with minimal rests. I don't break for more than 30 seconds between reps, and no more than a minute moving from one to another. Your HR should significantly elevated throughout, if its not speed it up. For every second in power mode, 2 seconds in resistance. For example, curls: One second pulling up, 2 seconds lowering.

I've been doing CrossFit for about 5 months now. It hasn't done anything for my climbing. In fact, the more I go to CrossFit the less I go climbing outside, or at the climbing gym. This year my climbing has really suffered. I think in the fall I'll take a couple months off from CrossFit and dedicate myself to climbing again.

But if anything, it's made carrying a heavy pack on a long and rugged approach a lot easier.

all I do is climb and crossfit. I find crossfit makes me good at everything without specializing too much. I'd ignore most of the people who talk negatively about it (it's hard and they don't approve. Just be cautious with your programing and don't hurt yourself) as an adult you should be able to do this.

I guess I should give one example: yesterday I ran 17 miles. I haven't run specifically outside of crossfit since my Ironman last October. I feel great today and I blame that on my general fitness acquired by crossfitting.

I don't believe that crossfitting is going to make you a better climber but it will make you a stronger more adaptable person in general

Brandon H - SC wrote:I don't believe that crossfitting is going to make you a better climber but it will make you a stronger more adaptable person in general

Is crossfitting a word?

I don't doubt crossfit will improve your approach. If I had a ton of time, I wouldn't be against it.

Just on a personal anecdote tip, there seem to be a lot of people who get injuries from pushing too hard too fast with crossfit.

Colonel Mustard wrote: ...there seem to be a lot of people who get injuries from pushing too hard too fast with crossfit.

That can happen with any sport.

There is a stigma with CrossFit that a lot of the athletes and coaches sacrifice the quality in movement over quantity of reps.

My coaches are very by the book in terms of teaching us proper form and technique. Of course, it's on the person to do things correctly, not lift beyond their ability, or workout while injured.

If lifetime fitness is your goal, do whatever you want to have fun. If you're looking to push the envelope with climbing, focus on that. Just being presumptuous, but I'm pretty sure NBA basketball players aren't taking batting practice - ya know.

Michael C wrote: That can happen with any sport. There is a stigma with CrossFit that a lot of the athletes and coaches sacrifice the quality in movement over quantity of reps. My coaches are very by the book in terms of teaching us proper form and technique. Of course, it's on the person to do things correctly, not lift beyond their ability, or workout while injured.

Really?! Please explain sports and working out to me, LOL. Wait, please don't.

It seems the format and ethos of crossfit may encourage doing more than you should. I am talking of people who aren't already very well-conditioned athletes. Perhaps I am full of shit, it wouldn't be the first time.

Also, eat paleo, brah! I've heard you're less than nothing without a good cauliflower crust pizza recipe.

As always, the best way to get in better shape for rock climbing....

Is to go rock climbing.

Source: I did Crossfit for 2 1/2 years, climb quite a bit now, have lower bodyfat now, and generally climb much mo' betta. Oh, and I don't post pics of me putting barbells above my head on Facebook. Bam!

The treatment of your tendonitis depends on which type it is. Go see your Sports Med clinic doc. Obviously if it hurts, you'll either have to modify or decrease the exercise(s) that you're doing in HITT that's exacerbating it. Your HM or GMO may not have enough experience dealing with sports medicine injuries.

@ Colonel Mustard

Wait, so you're telling me you never heard of anyone being injured while playing sports, working out or doing an activity? No basketball player ever rolled an ankle? No football player ever tore an achiles tendon? No wrestler ever blew an ACL? And nobody has ever hurt themselves while lifting weights, jumping, running, climbing etc?

I know a little bit about sports and exercise. I have a Personal Training Certification through the National Academy of Sports Medicine. What's your expertise?

I've been active my whole life. I was in the Army, so I know what it's like to be pushed to the point of blacking out and waking up with an IV in your arm. Comapred to CrossFit (where I've never been hurt) I could probably never touch the amount of injuries I had while in the military for doing stupid shit.

Why don't you try it for yourself? It might or might not be everything you assume it is. It's not for everybody. Not everyone likes it, and certainly not everyone can keep up with it either.

And I'd say close to 80% of my diet resembles Paleo (meats, veggies) even though I don't follow it, but eat pretty healthy. And I would never eat a cauliflower pizza, brah.

Michael C wrote:@ Colonel Mustard Wait, so you're telling me you never heard of anyone being injured while playing sports, working out or doing an activity?

Not what I'm saying at all, and I'm not going to measure streams or whatever you are seeking with comparing certs and experience. I don't want an exercise physiology debate either, that shit is about as fun to discuss as a ball peen hammer to a heberden node.

Go crossfitting, cross stitching, or whatever else floats your boat, brah, I'm really not coming down that hard on it or even saying I know that much about it.

I wouldn't consider it a sport, or something I'm to take time away from doing things I actually like. For me, motivation comes from doing the things I like. Since I don't get paid to climb, it makes an awful lot of sense to me. That's my philosophy.

To the OP: If you have trouble fitting in what you really want to do because you're too busy preparing to do the thing you want to do... I don't know, maybe you have a prioritization issue.

Daniel,

If you were to take an analytical approach to your climbing what areas do you think are holding you back?

Lack of muscular strength or conditioning?
Excess body weight?
Finger strength/conditioning?
Psychological strength and conditioning?
Technique?

I find that too often people say they aren't "strong" enough to climb a certain grade or route. They associate this lack of "strength" directly to bigger muscles and more toned bodies. It's true that Sharma looks good without a shirt, but there are probably more effective areas for you to focus on at the moment. I assume, being a marine, that you are very physically fit. I believe this book does a fantastic job of exploring the different areas that make up a "strong" climber and how to analyze yourself and your weaknesses.

More often than not I believe that proper technique can compensate for lack of muscular strength or conditioning. If you know the physics of your planned moves and can quickly and calmly adjust your body positioning then you will need less muscular strength, let gravity and the laws of physics do some of the work for you :)

amazon.com/Performance-Rock…

Dan,

I attend crossfit and climb. The short answer is this:

you are starting out. you need to climb as much as possible to build a foundation on which you can develop strength.

I didn't start doing crossfit until recently when I started to push into the 12s. I only go once or twice a week and am careful to select the wods I think will work for me. I also never do the prescribed weight as it doesn't benefit me to bulk up. Yes I have gotten stronger but I feel that is because I have a strong foundation and am building on that foundation

ymmv

The best training for climbing is climbing.

I have to 8th or 10th or 14th what everyone else is saying, like McClure's postage stamp rule. "Climb more".

Personally, have always been into weights and actually think it's detrimental to my climbing overall; I bulk up really fast in the 6-8 rep range.

would counsel that what you really want to train is bodyweight gnarl exercises if you are going to do any peripheral training. Planches, dips, etc.*

Crossfit may have it's place (indeed some of the top climbers do it) but for the most part having done some my opinion is that for most participants form is too sloppy, weights are inappropriate and there's not a lot of type IIb muscle fiber development that could translate to climbing in the workouts. You'd be better off avoiding overtraining and climbing hundreds if not thosands of pitches at your stage...jmo. You're a trainer, you can figure it out. What you might focus on is oppositional stuff to climbing...

• Try some of the stuff in "Overcoming Gravity" by Steven Low. The progressions would probably help your climbing and maybe even injury preventions much more than most any WOD...

some other advice, dont clb more than 3 times a week to avoid injury.

I've been climbing for almost 15 years and I've been a CF trainer for nearly 5 years. I have had an evolving opinion on the whole deal.

If you are overweight, slow, or weak, CF can help fix that. A lot depends on the quality of the coaching staff. As mentioned earlier, there is no one type of programming that defines "CrossFit" anymore. Some places do it like they do on the Main Site with each week consisting of a day or two of max effort lifting and the rest of the days consisting of 10-30 minutes of all out tempo effort. But I think that other approaches, more organized approaches, lead to better results for more people. Programs like Outlaw and Optimum Performance Training (what we do) help more people in a more appropriate way, in my opinion. For example, if you have less than a year of Olympic lifting experience, you should probably not be doing Oly lifting for time. You suck at Oly lifting, your form is terrible, and now you're going to do this thing you're bad at over and over again as fast as you can? That is stupid. And your trainers are stupid for programming it. =)

We also have a more structured program. Not every day is "go all out as fast as you can for 10 to 30 minutes". While some people can and do thrive on that kind of training, I think that over the long term, for most individuals, that approach is not sustainable, and it is not the absolute best way to train forever. We have longer, slower aerobic days every week, where there is no "score" and no "winning". Our programming is more structured so that every day's duration and intensity is relevant to the other days of the week and month.

But back on track: some can benefit by getting in CF or some other sort of activity outside of simply climbing. It can help on your approach, it can help with carrying packs, it can increase your endurance, and it can do a lot more if any of that is something that you are lacking in. I hesitate to put specific numbers on it because people have a wide range of abilities, but I think that the climber who is climbing up to about 5.9 (trad) or so will get the most benefit out of it. Those guys and gals are still learning, and supplemental training is not going to hold them back at all. Gaining muscle to the point of diminishing returns is probably not an issue up until that point for most.

Others who are climbing at the 5.10-5.12 range could probably benefit from some of the cardio and upper body stuff that is going on in CF. But I think that most folks without sick natural talent are not going to sustain climbing 5.12 if they devote too much of their time to CF. I'm a set of 1, but I sure as hell can't climb 5.12 now that I'm at CF three or more days a week. Other people can. I can't.

I think, though, that if you are currently climbing 5.8 trad, and your goal is an onsight ability up to 5.10 or even 5.11, then CF can be a part of the plan.

So for specifics on what I do on average, since that was the question: I currently do the workout at my CF gym 3 days per week: normally M-T-W. In addition, I run trails twice a week: 4-7 miles on Thursday and 6-13 miles Saturday. I climb in the gym once per week for 2-3 hours on Sunday. Friday is my rest day. I might be forced into yoga by my wife that day. If I am going outside on the weekend, I skip the Saturday run and the Sunday gym climbing for that week.

Having said all that, I'm not really trying to improve my climbing as far as increasing grades is concerned. I'm at a place that for me at this point in my life is good enough. I have fun. With the training above, I'm able to continue climbing 2-3 letter grades lower than my best onsight ability when I was doing nothing but climb. But now I'm able to hike faster, climb longer, and do some things in alpine environments that I don't think would have been appropriate if I had never started doing CF. So I guess your mileage may vary. If I really wanted to climb 5.12, I would probably need to make sure I got outside most weekends, and maybe replace a CF day with a gym climbing day. But everybody's different, and you're going to have to play around with figuring out what works for you.

Hey great responses guys. However, I think some of you misunderstood what I was asking, or maybe I didn't word it the right way. So I'm thinking right now about incorporating rock climbing (ie running laps up different routes in the gym) as part of a WOD.

For example: 21, 18, 15 repetitions of the following: laps up a marked 5.10 route in the gym, 135 front squats, situps

This way I'm getting plenty of climbing in as well as hitting my core & legs targeting all the muscle groups. Does that make sense? I was just wondering if anyone here had tried something like that before and how it went for them.

I would definitely say the two things I need to work on the most, is finger strength and technique. When I learned to climb, I started out crack climbing which I feel very comfortable with. Offwidth, slab, and chimneys are my weak point. Especially offwidth & slab.