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Ethics of Manufacturing a Route


matt davies · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 25
Skat B wrote:In a canyon there is an overhanging pristine slab that is hidden from view of all climbers, hikers, and it's not even visible on Google Earth. It is not near any trails nor any climbing areas. Trees also obstruct its view from everything and everyone. Like I said earlier this slab is very overhung and has no holds on it. It will never be climbed. It's impossible. This would be a perfect face for a finger crack. Materials Needed: - Concrete saw with a generater - Pre-euthanized dogs from an animal shelter to haul up the saw and the generator - An axe to cut down the trees that are touching the slab - ? Gallons of gasoline to fuel the generator - 24-V Rotary hammer drill (for the anchors) (1) What am I missing? The crack would be 50 feet long and several inches deep. How much gasoline and saw blades would I need? The rock is granite. (2) Is this ethical? Keep in mind no one can see it, not even the satellites employed by Google Earth can see it.
I've had a little bit of experience in this arena. First off, forget dogs. Dogs, even pre-euthanized, are an ethical powder keg. Get yourself some half-starved horses, they come cheaper and when you are done with them you can butcher them for lasagna.
Second, your saw is going to get hotter than Archie Bunker at an Obama rally once you get going. Get together a bunch of war orphans, some malnourished, some with cleft-palates, to cry as profusely as they can muster.A fiend of mine says onions will work to get the little tykes going, but I had the best results showing hard-core bouldering films on a loop. You'll need about a gallon. Use their tears to keep your saw cool.
Other than that, sounds like you've got a well thought out and exciting proj!
Cheerio!
Superclimber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 1,435
Skat B wrote: Btw..WTF is a crack machine?? I need schematics!! Thanks!
This might help your cause.
Crack machine
Boissal · · Small Lake, UT · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 1,345
Skat B wrote:It would resemble Cobra Crack
BWWAAAAAAHHH!!
It most certainly would not. It would look like a manufactured rail up a blank overhang, complete with chalk and hordes or shirtless bros flailing on TR. At best, it will resemble the gash you'll put through your skull within 5 minutes of attempting to rap down with a giant saw...
Rogerlarock · · Nedsterdam, Colorado · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 5

Well, shortly after I sawed Manufractured in an "unclimbable" face we managed to climb the wall just beside the crack. Guess it wasn't impossible after all.

Otherwise be prepared for bizarre rappel manipulations and a lot of hard work.

NorCalNomad · · San Francisco · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 105
Skat B wrote:Forget the dogs, I'll haul it up there myself. No, I'm not a troll. Yes, this is a legitimate question!! I look down on manufactured routes usually but given the location and the face it would look A LOT better with a steep finger crack!! Yes, I have heard both sides argue over cutting a crack in a quarry (5.11- I think?) Why a finger crack? Finger cracks are badass. I'd make it deep enough to place gear and full-on finger locks. It would resemble Cobra Crack and would be out of my league but just having it there would be pretty cool! Horizontal cracks would be sick but would the route even be climbable ?? Oh, and due to limited funds it won't be a freakin' hand crack and I'm not cutting a nice line just to take a crowbar to it... Btw..WTF is a crack machine?? I need schematics!! Thanks!


Hope Muir rises from his grave and beats the stupid out of you.
Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,280

It's been done. Someone cut a lazer finger crack into a quarry wall in PA. Anyone else know about this? I have never seen it, but I know or exists.

Skat B · · Down Rodeo · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 830

Kennoyce, I like the way you think, bro!!

@rest of ya, yeah ok it won't be like cobra crack..but it'll be a classic of it's own. It all depends how well I can operate a concrete saw while rapping down.

Clarify again what a "crack machine that I can put in my back yard" looks like.

D Stevenson · · Escalange, UT · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 25

There's probably some geologic reason why the rock formed that way. I'm not saying that throwing a manmade crack in there is going to have some huge effect on anything, but I really don't think it's OK to modify naturally occurring formations. Especially since there are other cracks out there, and there are perfect splitter finger cracks in gyms.

Someone mentioned that there's a nice crack up in a quarry. That actually sounds pretty sweet. Humans have already done the damage, and you could, with some work, make an outdoor playground of sweet cracks.

One of the reasons I enjoy the outdoors is to get away from humans and human impact. I understand routes aren't much different than hiking trails, as they both serve as a way to get from a to b in the backcountry, but you'd basically be forcing thousands of years of unnatural erosion.

If the rock is unclimbable, admire it for that reason, and why it is that way.

J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50
Davis Stevenson wrote: One of the reasons I enjoy the outdoors is to get away from humans and human impact.
Sounds like you should mountaineer. Just you and another dude, hugging in the wilderness.
Patrick Mulligan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 1,105
robrobrobrob wrote:http://www.rockclimbing.com/routes/North_America/United_States/Pennsylvania/Southcentral_Region/Bellefonte_Quarry/Upper_Quarry/manufractured_21811.html Granite would take longer, and I'm thinking the ethics might be different when it's not in a quarry. On the plus side, it wouldn't get polished as quickly. Who owns the land... maybe ask them.
Ethics aside... Having climbed Manufractured I can tell you from experience that this is simply stupid. Manufractured in no way climbed like a normal crack. I think the end result had to be drilled as well (not to mention bolted) to make the holds more comfortable simply so it could be climbed and even then if you didn't use about four layers of tape you'd loose all your skin before the first knuckle on your index middle and ring fingers due to the 90 degree angle between the "crack" and face and the uneven nature of the sawing. I'm sure Rick can elaborate. If I remember correctly the face on both sides of Manufractured ended up with stout routes on them.

Man - how did I get sucked into this obvious trolling?
Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 23,205
michaeltarne wrote:I'm confused on the whole overhung slab thing.
Wait a minute, he said:
Skat B wrote: Pre-euthanized dogs from an animal shelter to haul up the saw and the generator.
And you are confused about the slab thing?
Well, I'm not sure I can help.
D Stevenson · · Escalange, UT · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 25
J Q wrote: Sounds like you should mountaineer. Just you and another dude, hugging in the wilderness.
Yeah, man, except that's what the girlfriend is for.

Anyways, not everything in the world is meant to be climbed... Climb the natural things that can be.

Also as someone above mentioned, it doesn't even sound like much fun.
D Stevenson · · Escalange, UT · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 25
Skat B wrote:not even the satellites employed by Google Earth can see it.
Oh I missed this before. It can't be wrong if Google doesn't see it!
Will S · · Joshua Tree · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 1,053

Concrete saw? Pffft! Amateurs.

Dynamite is where it's at. You might just create the "hardest crack climb in the US", School of Mines did:

ben jammin · · Moab, UT · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 705

Maybe if you just jackhammer the top you can 'naturally' split the rock..

Superclimber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 1,435
J Q wrote: Sounds like you should mountaineer. Just you and another dude, hugging in the wilderness.
BaaaaaahahahahahahaahaÂ….waaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaÂ…Â…Â….bahahahahahahahah!
J. Thompson · · denver, co · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,475
Skat B wrote: The catch is that it is located on BLM land....
Thats not a catch! Thats a bonus!
You can ANYTHING you want on BLM land!

josh
Superclimber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 1,435
Skat B wrote:Clarify again what a "crack machine that I can put in my back yard" looks like.
They're easy to make, all you need is "a toilet paper roll, a cork screw, and some tin foil." or "an avocado, an ice pick, and a snorkel."
J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50
Davis Stevenson wrote: ... Climb the natural things that can be..
Bwhaaaa!

Davis Stevenson wrote: that's what the girlfriend is for. .


Exactly but,

Davis Stevenson wrote: it doesn't even sound like much fun.
I disagree
Skat B · · Down Rodeo · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 830
J. Thompson wrote: Thats not a catch! Thats a bonus! You can ANYTHING you want on BLM land! josh
Whoa! Is this really true? Anything on BLM land is fair game?

Davis Stevenson wrote:There's probably some geologic reason why the rock formed that way. I'm not saying that throwing a manmade crack in there is going to have some huge effect on anything, but I really don't think it's OK to modify naturally occurring formations. Especially since there are other cracks out there, and there are perfect splitter finger cracks in gyms
This is true. Creating my own crack may be more work than it's worth. I didn't take into consideration the process of buffing off the sharp edges so I don't tear my fingers up. And, just so I'm clear, 99.9999% of the time I do not like the idea of a manufactured route, especially in an area where there are already existing holds.

Patrick Mulligan wrote:I think the end result had to be drilled as well (not to mention bolted) to make the holds more comfortable simply so it could be climbed and even then if you didn't use about four layers of tape you'd loose all your skin before the first knuckle on your index middle and ring fingers due to the 90 degree angle between the "crack" and face and the uneven nature of the sawing.
Great info. Actually if I'm going through all this work to inevitably create a sport route then, to me, it's a total waste completely!!

Ok, thanks for all the feedback!! This is what happens when I think out loud. Freeing an aid route would probably be more satisfying than creating a new crack anyways. The overall idea was to find a crag where a lot of cracks hadn't seen a FA.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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