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science of pump?


Devin Krevetski · · Northfield, VT · Joined May 2008 · Points: 30
Aerili · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,970
Will Anglin wrote:It isn't so much the "lactic acid" it is the H ions (that are left after the LA breaks down into Lactate and a H ion) that create an acidic environment and prevent the myosin heads from detaching from the actin. You will notice that when you are pumped the muscle feels hard, this is because your myosin heads cannot release to ready themselves for another contraction. When you are pumped, it is not so much that you can't grip and flex your forearm, it is that you can't 'ungrip'.
New research has shown that H+ ions don't seem to interfere with contractile properties at true body temperatures, so this theory is quite questionable these days.

And your "ungripping" statement was just....weird. I have no idea where you came up with that. It was believed that acidosis prevented myosin and actin from binding and pulling "in", not the other way around.

Hey OP: muscle pump is due to occluded blood volume in the muscle due to exercise. Exercising muscles trap the blood from being returned back to the heart by occluding the veins. Look that up.

I still fail to see how this relates to microbiology at all. This is an exercise physiology topic. Maybe you should review what your class is actually about.
Howrad McGreehan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 0
Aerili wrote: New research has shown that H+ ions don't seem to interfere with contractile properties at true body temperatures, so this theory is quite questionable these days. And your "ungripping" statement was just....weird. I have no idea where you came up with that. It was believed that acidosis prevented myosin and actin from binding and pulling "in", not the other way around. Hey OP: muscle pump is due to occluded blood volume in the muscle due to exercise. Exercising muscles trap the blood from being returned back to the heart by occluding the veins. Look that up. I still fail to see how this relates to microbiology at all. This is an exercise physiology topic. Maybe you should review what your class is actually about.
Aerili, you seem to know a lot about a lot of science-y, climb-y things. But you're very mean. Maybe you could be a bit more constructive with your comments? I like reading your posts, but they always seem so pretentious.
Colonel Mustard · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,185

True, but good luck on that!

steve edwards · · SLC, UT · Joined May 2004 · Points: 660

Lance Armstrong doped!?!? I'm shocked! Shocked, I say! Round up the usual suspects.

Richard Fernandez · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 755
Howrad McGreehan wrote: Aerili, you seem to know a lot about a lot of science-y, climb-y things. But you're very mean. Maybe you could be a bit more constructive with your comments? I like reading your posts, but they always seem so pretentious.
+1
Mark E Dixon · · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 569
Howrad McGreehan wrote: Aerili, you seem to know a lot about a lot of science-y, climb-y things. But you're very mean. Maybe you could be a bit more constructive with your comments? I like reading your posts, but they always seem so pretentious.
Aerili actually knows what she is talking about and is generous enough to share her insights on MP.

Try hanging around educated people for a while...you'll get used to the way they talk.
Aerili · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,970

Edited to add: ^^^ Thanks guys!!!! :)

Howrad McGreehan wrote: Aerili, you seem to know a lot about a lot of science-y, climb-y things. But you're very mean. Maybe you could be a bit more constructive with your comments? I like reading your posts, but they always seem so pretentious.
Of all the people on here who fling mud and insult left and right, you think I'm really the mean one, huh? Interesting. (I admit I was a little mean here, but c'mon, has this guy been paying attention to his class material?)

Anyway, I usually reply to the "science-y" things with a neutral frame of mind and a goal to be objective, but maybe that sounds pretentious to some people. I'm not sure what to say to that. But also interestingly, I get a lot of people emailing me to tell me they think what I write is awesome and helpful. I guess you can't please everyone?

Oh, my other fault is probably that I'm a female with an opinion on things. That doesn't always seem to go over well. I didn't see any of the dudes mocking the OP get called out....
Matt J · · Minneapolis, MN · Joined May 2010 · Points: 60

Aerili,

I am taking a standard 5cr MICROBIOLOGY course. Same course offered at most fine colleges and universities across the globe. In this course we study biology, on a micro level. Aerobic/Anaerobic Respiration are one of the main focus's in this class. I recall going over this same material in regular old Biology as well...

I've been biting my tongue, and really wanna throw this back in your face, but I won't, because I am not an ignorant person.

Taylor Ogden · · The Land of Ooo · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 106
Matt J wrote:Aerili, I am taking a standard 5cr MICROBIOLOGY course. Same course offered at most fine colleges and universities across the globe. In this course we study biology, on a micro level. Aerobic/Anaerobic Respiration are one of the main focus's in this class. I recall going over this same material in regular old Biology as well... I've been biting my tongue, and really wanna throw this back in your face, but I won't, because I am not an ignorant person.
Oh snap, I'm so ready for this to blow up.

Aerili · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,970

Hahahaha, me too, Taylor! :D

Matt J wrote:Aerobic/Anaerobic Respiration are one of the main focus's in this class.
With regard to exercise? Or with regard to basic cell (or microbial) functioning?

I took micro and don't remember studying anything about cellular exercise physiology. I do remember studying a lot about disease. Edited to add: I thought the unifying theme in micro was microorganisms.
CareBear Melber · · Worcester, MA · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 0

I would have to agree with Aerili that most standard microbiology courses would not cover lactic acid synthesis in humans. However, many professors compare and contrast both human and microorganism molecular processes (this is because similarities between the two can be studied in the microorganism and implied in humans). Hence the confusion between lactic acid synthesis and fermentation in the first place. The college courses I took (everywhere is different) respiration was covered on a protein level in biochemistry or molecular biology courses, while growth conditions (sugars, amino acids, nutrients, oxygen etc) are explored in a microbiology course. In general from my experiences, human processes are not explored to much in most micro courses aside from immunological response. If you want to explore something climbing related for a microbiology project, alpine medical risks of infection and contaminated water would probably be more ideal for the class. If you are covering human metabolism there is no reason to avoid lactic acid production more importantly the activation of this process. Ask your prof if you are not sure which is better. Best of luck with your project.

Some caring bear.

Matt J · · Minneapolis, MN · Joined May 2010 · Points: 60

I realized a long time ago that arguing online reaps nothing. Well, I guess it can be entertaining :)

Stating in my first post was that I decided to use Anaerobic Respiration for my project of choice. Being a climber, choosing Anaerobic Respiration and how it is directly linked to muscle fatigue, I found it to be a fitting choice.

Bacteria are microorganisms. Our bodies are filled with bacteria. Specifically the Mitochondria, part bacteria, part eukaryote. Mitochondria is what is responsible for all the respiration occurring in our cells.

And yes, Anaerobic Respiration is also directly related to physiology.
But the process starts with the Mitochondria.

MaraC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 10
Matt J wrote:And yes, Anaerobic Respiration is also directly related to physiology. But the process starts with the Mitochondria.
Not usually one to jump in the fray, but I'm pretty sure the process DOESN'T start with mitochondria. Anaerobic processes in the muscle take place in the cytosol. Even aerobic respiration starts with a substrate-level process - glycolosis - and doesn't "start with the Mitochondria".
camhead · · Vandalia, Appalachia · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,240
Aerili wrote:Edited to add: ^^^ Thanks guys!!!! :) Of all the people on here who fling mud and insult left and right, you think I'm really the mean one, huh? Interesting. (I admit I was a little mean here, but c'mon, has this guy been paying attention to his class material?) Anyway, I usually reply to the "science-y" things with a neutral frame of mind and a goal to be objective, but maybe that sounds pretentious to some people. I'm not sure what to say to that. But also interestingly, I get a lot of people emailing me to tell me they think what I write is awesome and helpful. I guess you can't please everyone? Oh, my other fault is probably that I'm a female with an opinion on things. That doesn't always seem to go over well. I didn't see any of the dudes mocking the OP get called out....
awesome.
Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

I don't know what you guys are talking about. Every time I get pumped, I can suck a tasty stout right from my fingers and arm.

It's friggin awesome!!

Aerili · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,970
Matt J wrote:Being a climber, choosing Anaerobic Respiration and how it is directly linked to muscle fatigue, I found it to be a fitting choice.
My honest opinion is that it's a big stretch. I think you would end up writing a biochem paper. Others suggested better topics. Also, the science of muscle fatigue is currently a massive topic with loads of debate and uncertainty, and acidosis is one of the most questioned ideas presently. You probably want something more focused. Do what you will, but that's my $.02.
Matt J · · Minneapolis, MN · Joined May 2010 · Points: 60

We are not taking an in depth look at fermentation/anaerobic stuff, just hitting the tip of the ice berg.

This isnt a big project either, just gotta make a poster of sorts. Very elementary. He encouraged us to choose something that relates to a topic that interests us.

And you are right, cellular resp begins in the cytosol. Immediately after posting this I realized I made a mistake but didnt really wanna edit.

Thanks everyone!

Adam B · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 310

AWESOME, I learned about exercise physiology on the internet today! The bio folks geek out on muscles, the Enginerds geek out on bolts(nerd bolts) , but rarely does anyone talk about the rocks? Sad... So sad.

Aerili, you actually do not come across mean at all, in fact you seem like a very nice intelligent lady.

AJS · · Boulder, CO · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 25

Oh OH OHHHH! Who want to talk quantum physics???

  • crickets*


Damn it!
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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