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First In Line Etiquette Question, aka Early Ice Season Shenanigans


Matt N · · Santa Barbara, CA · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 287

This could all be sorted out so much easier



possibly even online through reservations.gov for all routes inside parks - just like Half Dome hiking permits.

A new black market for scalpers would arise and offer dirtbags another income venue.
Kevin Craig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 325
Scott McMahon wrote: All facts aside and this isn't a personal attack, but an anonymous note threating to slash his tires? It sucks to have someone squeeze in front of you, but that respone is a bit extreme IMO. Whether ozone was wrong or right, that response isn't much of an "ethic". Verbally berating them over beers with your partner is much more amicable.
Yeah, well, that particular instant was not my best moment, I'll admit. To be fair, I didn't say "slash" there's this little valve thingy on each tire, but interesting that everyone's mind jumped to slash from flat. And in the end no harm was done.

Seems like complaining about the note to your partner over beers would be more amicable than running to MP for validation too, but I guess that's what everyone does these days. (EDIT - this is a comment on Scott's comment)

EDIT - FWIW, Ozone and I seem to have arrived at a mutually acceptable understanding via PM. Hopefully we'll meet under better circumstances in the future.
Petsfed · · Laramie, WY · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 915

"My apologies for the angry note, but I thought it was a pretty crappy thing to do to us and the other party who was also there earlier, and it was the second time I'd been there in 4 days and still haven't gotten on the route (skunked by the rangers the first time) - and I guess I won't unless I gear up at home and sprint out of the car.

I guess I was brought up in a different time under a different ethic. Sorry to see this is where things are going. Guess I'll take up knitting."

Really? I was brought up in a time where threats of property damage (ever had to get towed off of Pikes Peak? It ain't cheap) over moving quickly was completely unacceptable. Different eras I guess.

You were fine until the tire-draining comment. That is, "You're a fucking tool!" rolls off most people's backs. Maybe they reflect on it and become better people for it. "You're a fucking tool and I'll let the air out of your tires!" makes you sound unbalanced, and whatever justification you may have had went out the window. They didn't block you in so you couldn't keep up. They just recognized (as you should've) that if they didn't get on the thing, fast, they wouldn't get on the thing, period. I have definitely racked up in the car so that I could get on my objective as quickly as possible and minimize the amount of time people behind me had to wait.

It sounds to me like, since you'd been snaked before, you should've been ready to rock as soon as the gate came open if for no other reason than because you'd been snaked before. Moreover, you should've taken the high road and just been better in the future, rather than letting your anger get the better of you. If you're going to criticize people for poor behavior, you might avoid threats in your criticism.

//edit to address the tire-slashing misread. Criticism still stands: letting the air out of somebody's tires in downtown Denver is funny and inconvenient. Letting the air out of somebody's tires in the mountains could cost hundreds of dollars.

Trask · · Broomfield · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 200

I dont contribute much to this scene but since I was personally involved I would like to say that Kevin and I have since been in contact and we have kissed and made up.........I truly at times think the responses on this site are piss your pant funny but this is one that I would rather not throw gas on.... I think Kevin and I can both agree that we both wanna live in a world where morals still stand up and I have since said my peace and apologized for being inconsiderate. Lets let this one go boys ok?? Cheers Kevin

Trask · · Broomfield · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 200

P.S. Tim you are too funny with that chin hair!!!!!!!

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

At least he was going to leave the spare alone. In Laramie that shit would be on blocks with the trailer park suds'n up to warm bud light through the buck teeth in skin tight wally-world wranglers jamming to the year round xmas disco-lights on the porch with their new found rollin gold; yee friggin haw

matt davies · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 25
Kevin Craig wrote: Yeah, well, that particular instant was not my best moment, I'll admit. To be fair, I didn't say "slash" there's this little valve thingy on each tire, but interesting that everyone's mind jumped to slash from flat. And in the end no harm was done. Seems like complaining about the note to your partner over beers would be more amicable than running to MP for validation too, but I guess that's what everyone does these days.
Kevin,
Kudos for coming out and taking responsibility for the note, usually note-leavers are pussies content to be anonymous. Kudos for using your real name in the forums. Everyone has bad days and has done regrettable things out of frustration, and no one should be judged by their worst day. I take 2 lessons learned from this :
1- It's almost ice climbing season in Canada
2- It's almost always a bad idea to leave threatening notes on cars, unless you're threatening Tits to get his ass in gear and get an early start for once.
Kevin Craig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 325
Brian Scoggins wrote:"My apologies for the angry note, but I thought it was a pretty crappy thing to do to us and the other party who was also there earlier, and it was the second time I'd been there in 4 days and still haven't gotten on the route (skunked by the rangers the first time) - and I guess I won't unless I gear up at home and sprint out of the car. I guess I was brought up in a different time under a different ethic. Sorry to see this is where things are going. Guess I'll take up knitting." Really? I was brought up in a time where threats of property damage (ever had to get towed off of Pikes Peak? It ain't cheap) over moving quickly was completely unacceptable. Different eras I guess. You were fine until the tire-draining comment. That is, "You're a fucking tool!" rolls off most people's backs. Maybe they reflect on it and become better people for it. "You're a fucking tool and I'll let the air out of your tires!" makes you sound unbalanced, and whatever justification you may have had went out the window. They didn't block you in so you couldn't keep up. They just recognized (as you should've) that if they didn't get on the thing, fast, they wouldn't get on the thing, period. I have definitely racked up in the car so that I could get on my objective as quickly as possible and minimize the amount of time people behind me had to wait. It sounds to me like, since you'd been snaked before, you should've been ready to rock as soon as the gate came open if for no other reason than because you'd been snaked before. Moreover, you should've taken the high road and just been better in the future, rather than letting your anger get the better of you. If you're going to criticize people for poor behavior, you might avoid threats in your criticism. //edit to address the tire-slashing misread. Criticism still stands: letting the air out of somebody's tires in downtown Denver is funny and inconvenient. Letting the air out of somebody's tires in the mountains could cost hundreds of dollars.
And, indeed, I didn't do it, did I? Merely pointing out that someone even less balanced than I (if that's possible :^) might be inclined to do it in the future. OK, fine, bluster, guilty as charged. Apologies.
thechoad · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 0

trask, go cover yourself with bees and jump out of a helicopter

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

& don't forget the go-pro

Jason Himick · · Denver, CO · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 185
Rock-paper-scissors is a hand game played by two people. The game is also known as roshambo, or by other orderings of the three items (with "stone" sometimes substituting for "rock"). The game is often used as a choosing method in a way similar to coin flipping, drawing straws, or throwing dice. Unlike truly random selection methods, however, rock-paper-scissors can be played with a degree of skill by recognizing and exploiting non-random behavior in opponents.

Carry on.
Trask · · Broomfield · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 200

Ah...... I see we have a Fear factor ref.......nice man

thechoad · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 0

and when your done go sing me a song at the beanery

Kevin Craig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 325
matt davies wrote: Kevin, Kudos for coming out and taking responsibility for the note, usually note-leavers are pussies content to be anonymous. Kudos for using your real name in the forums. Everyone has bad days and has done regrettable things out of frustration, and no one should be judged by their worst day. I take 2 lessons learned from this : 1- It's almost ice climbing season in Canada 2- It's almost always a bad idea to leave threatening notes on cars, unless you're threatening Tits to get his ass in gear and get an early start for once.
Thanks for your acknowledgments and charity. I will keep #2 in mind for sure.

The funny thing is, the only other time I recall something like this happening to me (in more than a dozen years of ice climbing) was IN Canada! It's gotten a lot more crowded in the last 5 years too. Especially when avy conditions are high and The Ghost is snowed in.
Daniel Battin · · Green Mtn. Falls, CO · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 440

Kevin, So the answer to my question is what? He who wakes up first gets the climb? First in line at the gate gets the climb? First to the parking lot gets the climb? He who checks with others first gets the climb?
Look I passed some guys on the traverse. Those guys (in my mind) are the only people who had legitimate claim to being first on the route. We handled it like “gentlemen” admittedly fifth grade gentlemen (ro-sham-bo). Who are we kidding? We all knew what we were there to climb. I didn’t need to check with anyone.
Yea, I had a plan. I’ve been skunked on that route three times in the last month. This gives me no more claim to it than anyone else, it just educates me as to what I need to do to get on it. I had my rack ready specifically for this route weeks in advance. I knew what I needed to bring to climb it fast and light. I knew that if Trask and I were able to get on it first we would be up and out very fast. We linked the first two pitches into one and were on the route for less than an hour.
I’m all about sharing routes. I.E. not spending too much time on a route. Letting faster parties pass. Maybe climbing something other than my first choice until my first choice is available. And understanding that I don’t always get to accomplish the goals I might have set out for the day.
Today you got beaten. Albeit beaten by a person who was single minded and not in his usual mood for exchanging pleasantries with his fellow members of the climbing community. (A long way of saying I was in a hurry)
Tomorrow I’ll get beaten, but I’ll never threaten someone, or accuse them of being “selfish inconsiderate bastards”. Yea, I won’t even leave a note saying anything.
Kevin, I accept your apology. I hope your next day out climbing is a better one and you don’t feel the need to write any notes.

Cornelius Jefferson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 105
Vincent Vega wrote:What's more chicken shit than fucking with another man's automobile? You don't fuck with another man's vehicle. You just don't do it.
thechoad · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 0

trask . . . we're not here to throw the ball around. dont you know who i am? i play for k state.

Kevin Craig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 325
OZONE wrote:Kevin, So the answer to my question is what? He who wakes up first gets the climb? First in line at the gate gets the climb? First to the parking lot gets the climb? He who checks with others first gets the climb? Look I passed some guys on the traverse. Those guys (in my mind) are the only people who had legitimate claim to being first on the route. We handled it like “gentlemen” admittedly fifth grade gentlemen (ro-sham-bo). Who are we kidding? We all knew what we were there to climb. I didn’t need to check with anyone. Yea, I had a plan. I’ve been skunked on that route three times in the last month. This gives me no more claim to it than anyone else, it just educates me as to what I need to do to get on it. I had my rack ready specifically for this route weeks in advance. I knew what I needed to bring to climb it fast and light. I knew that if Trask and I were able to get on it first we would be up and out very fast. We linked the first two pitches into one and were on the route for less than an hour. I’m all about sharing routes. I.E. not spending too much time on a route. Letting faster parties pass. Maybe climbing something other than my first choice until my first choice is available. And understanding that I don’t always get to accomplish the goals I might have set out for the day. Today you got beaten. Albeit beaten by a person who was single minded and not in his usual mood for exchanging pleasantries with his fellow members of the climbing community. (A long way of saying I was in a hurry) Tomorrow I’ll get beaten, but I’ll never threaten to slash someone’s tires, or accuse them of being “selfish inconsiderate bastards”. Yea, I won’t even leave a note saying anything. Kevin, I accept your apology. I hope your next day out climbing is a better one and you don’t feel the need to write any notes.
OK, my mistake about whose pseudonym was who on here. Apologies for that. Trask and I seem to have it sorted out. I'm fine with leaving it there with him. I apologize for the note; I don't apologize for my opinion on the matter in general or acknowledge your (Ozone's) version as being the whole story however. We, you and I anyway, may have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Kevin Craig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 325
CJC wrote:
Gotta love a Pulp Fiction quote. And do I have to reiterate, I didn't?
Trask · · Broomfield · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 200

HOLY SHIT!!!! ( THECHOAD ) who are you man!!?? I remember that night very well which is impressive considering we were all pretty drunk.........wow.....what a blast from the past

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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