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2:1 Haul Setup - Rate my rigging


Original Post
randy88fj62 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 293

I am making this thread to show people a 2:1 haul setup and also see what I can do better.Here is my 2:1 haul system setup using ChongoÂ’s big wall book as my reference. A 2:1 was chosen over a 3:1 as it will save time hauling the bag and allow my gf to operate the haul system while I would be jugging. I may use a 1:1 later on when food and water have decreased on the second or third day.
The Petzl prusik minding pulley is 97% efficient (theoretical) and weighs .19 lbs. The blue CMI pulley is 95.6% efficient and weighs .45 lbs. And since IÂ’m listing efficiencies, the Petzl pro Traxion has a 91% efficient pulley. I show the Petzl gold ascender in the picture since it could be used as a substitute for the WC ropeman II. I plan on mounting the Traxion to a Frost power draw or using a short dogbone with lockers on it. This should allow the Traxion to pivot and prevent binding. Now consider that the Traxion will be hauling only enough for a 2 night stay on a wall for two people and it should not be seeing any heavy static loads. This setup would be operated with a pedal system meaning that you would pump the haul line up with one leg and reset the ropeman II with the other as needed. I show petzl caving foot straps for simplicity but any set of ladders, etriers, or slings could be used. This leaves your hand to pull the haul line slack through the Traxion.
Question: Am I lacking a safety backup or does the ropeman II count as the backup? I want to make sure that safety is maintained since this type of rigging is new to me. Recommendations to make this setup better are welcomed. Please state how many walls youÂ’ve done so I can gauge real responses from people like me who have never been on wall.

rock-fencer · · Columbia, SC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 265

why the two ropes?

Larry S · · Easton, Pennsylvania · Joined May 2010 · Points: 840
rock_fencer wrote:why the two ropes?
It's a ratchet system, the left rope is just a short piece that does the lifting and then resets.
Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 415

Very good set up.

I am a master at 2:1 hauling! I have it singing and can easily haul 250/300 up an overhanging wall.

Your rig is heavier than it needs to be. Your use of the rigging plate is good but not needed. Your pulling cord, your Zed-Cord needs to be only 5 mil Spectra. I tried the Ropeman as the bottom rope grab but the moment it takes to grab the rope gets annoying.

My 2:1 system. Notice how everything is very much in a straight line.

The Pro-Traxion, is too heavy for what you're using it for. If you want to have a bigger sheave pulley around for later 1 to 1 hauling then you're good but all the Pro-trax does is grab the rope, not really using the pulley. I use a Mini-trax in place of it.

Check out a vid of me hauling 250 pounds on the first day of the South Seas last fall.



Check out my Big Wall Tips and El Cap Route Panoramas site. 2:1 hauling is the next tips sheet I'm writing

El Cap Route Panoramas and Big Wall Tips

18 El Cap routes starting in 1974, 4 in the last 2 years, 2 solos so far and another route and solo coming up this Spring!
rock-fencer · · Columbia, SC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 265
Larry S wrote: It's a ratchet system, the left rope is just a short piece that does the lifting and then resets.
ah thanks, thats what i figured. i'm just used to hauling with the rope itself
Phill T · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2008 · Points: 80
2:1 haul

2:1 haul v2

the first one is what I based my setup off of, the second is what we used on moonlight (its a bit more confusing as both the pull rope and the haul rope are the same color). They are the same basic 2:1 ratchet, just a bit more compact. I am replacing the protrax with a microtrax to save weight and cluster.

you can also take your blue ascender and use it as the device that grabs the rope when you pull (your ropeman). and then for the actual pull cord, just tie a clove or a butterfly and clip that to your belay loop or a foot loop or whatever is appropriate for that particular haul.

Hudon, I love your protip pdfs, things are great at getting a look at a master wallrat's setup. keep em coming!
randy88fj62 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 293

Mark,
Thank you for the pictures and link. What kind of pulleys are you using with your 5 mm perlon cord? Seems like you could use really small pulleys as long as they are rated for the load. The petzl paw is just there for clarity as an anchor, I won't bring it up the wall.

I own a petzl croll. Could I use that in place of the ropeman or is its orientation a lot different from your petzl basic model which has different mounting configuration?

Do you ever haul 1:1 as your bag gets lighter? The reason I ask is that I have a mini traxion that I could swap out but I would only do so if I didn't plan on hauling 1:1. It's pulley efficiency is 71% and would suck for 1:1 hauling (at least in my head.)

Why is the second ratchet line called a zed line?

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 415

Randy,

You still need efficiency even with the 5 mil cord. My pulleys are an SMC Micro (the bottom one) and an SMC 2" sheave Rescue Pulley.

A Croll or a Basic would be perfect. I use a Basic.

No, I never haul 1:1. As the bags get lighter towards the top of the route, I'm getting more and more tired and weak. I've worked myself to death on walls in the past and now my goal is to enjoy them and let my techniques do the hard work for me.

The Zed Cord make a "Z"? I don't know, that's what Pete called it in his Climbing article.

randy88fj62 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 293

Mark,
Why not use your second main ascender in place of the basic? This would eliminate the need for one more piece of gear.

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 415

No reason why you couldn't. When I'm with a partner we usually take only one set though.

Actually that's funny, I just did a big DUH! and forehead slap when I read your post. I could easily save that weight. Good idea!

Bud Martin · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 380

Hudon, two weeks until I'm in the Valley, so get that .pdf up! Seriously, your beta on here and Supertopo are great reading. Thanks.

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 415

I'm on it!

In fact, here is a link to it so far. It'll eventually include 1:1 hauling and Far End Hauling for soloing.

El Cap Route Panoramas and Big Wall Tips

Feel free to donate often, or, hell, for that matter, buy a Pano!

divnamite · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 170

What size rope do you all use for the pull cord?

Hudon, saw your video, did you untie yourself from the lead line during the haul?

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 415

I use 5 mil Spectra as my Zed Cord.

I had just jugged up there from the ground. I didn't untie but was never tied in. I was clipped in to the anchor with two daisies, same as if I would be soloing.

Bear in mind also, that that is me, all 130 pounds of me, hauling bags that easily total 250+ pounds. You can see the effort to haul is equal to the effort of doing a squat.

Greg Gavin · · SLC, UT · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 713

so mark to you tag up your haul set up or do you keep it in a small bag clipped to you? seems like a bunch of stuff to carry up with you while on lead.

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 415

That is one bummer of the system, there is no way around the fact that it's heavy. It's only 2 pounds (actual weight) and I carry it all set up in a Fish Beef Bag. I clip it to my harness and carry it for the whole pitch. Really, after a full-on big wall rack, it's a non issue.

Here is a shot of Max leading with it on the Bering Straits on the South Seas/Pacific Ocean Wall last year.

Max Jones on the Bering Straits.
Greg Gavin · · SLC, UT · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 713

that's what i figured you did. generally speaking if i were to not carry a small water bottle i would simply replace the weight with the haul system. my only reservation is that on free climbing pitches (my aid experience has yet to exceed c2) the set up could be cumbersome and get in the way, no?

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 415

On South Seas/PO I got all the free climbing and really, it was no worse than free climbing some pitch somewhere (on the Nose or Salathe, DNB or Astroman) with a big rack.

Greg Gavin · · SLC, UT · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 713

right on that is good to know. i love to quote you reference by PTPP that goes something like "we win by attrition mark. we're old bulls we don't run up and knock us off a cow, we walk up and nail them all." i reference it because it reminds me to take my time go slightly heavier than i want, and top out due to diligence. not bail due to arrogance. hence my wanting to tote a more effective hauling rig.

Bretterick Briggs · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 5

Peton Pete is Canadian. Up there they say the letter 'z' as zed. If you are in the states you would call it a Z line.

The more you know...

Bretterick Briggs · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 5
  • Piton
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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