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PAS Use?


Chris Hatzai · · Bend, OR · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 566

The loops on the PAS are triple sewn (the material wraps around itself 3 times over) then is bar tacked. All slings only overlap once and then are tacked. If equalized correctly, they work great. And seeing with my own eyes on testing machines, these break well over 22kn..

There’s a million ways to skin a cat.. i usually clove in with my rope on multipitches but it’s great having the PAS too. Theyre adjustable (choosing whichever loops you want to connnect to the wall with), light, are truly multi-use. I really love them for single pitch anchoring as well as for developing. While developing, I usually have a ton of things hanging off my PAS (drill, bag of gear, coiled rope, etc.) and then also a sling attached if i need to go to indirect to the wall.

To each their own, but the PAS is really a handy tool. 

Malcolm Daly · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 380

So, in the interest of kicking this dead horse down the road a bit further I’ve always been of the opinion that PAS=POS. I’ve just never felt the need to attach a bit of tat to my harness that clutters up my gear loops or, worse, dangles between my legs like a bit of stray pubic hair. The Petzl Connect Adjust and Dual Connect have finally changed my mind. I just love the secure feeling of being able to just “hoist” myself into the anchors after I clip. I love that I can extend the length of the anchor one-handed without having to unclip or double clip. I love that the connecting member is a piece of dynamic rope that will reduce the force of a fall if I totally blow it. And I love that the device will slip a bit under a severe load, further reducing the forces.

I use the Dual Connect because, as a trad climber, I find myself doing multi-pitch rappels and the extended rappel point is nice and the clip in point, bomber. When I’m cleaning the top of a sport climb I have two arms to clip in to. 

And, as pointed out repeatedly by RGold, I use this as a tether, not a primary anchor.

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 456

As another old trad climber who climbs at a 4-6 pitch venue which (for unknown reasons) has a shit ton of fixed anchors, I'd have to disagree. I've used a PAS there for years and personally can't quite figure out why, in a cragging context, any form of leashing warrants this much hand-ringing discussion one way or the other. It's not vaguely inconvenient (shortened in half, it stays on my left side attached to my back gear loop without interfering with anything [not doing the idiotic thong thing]), I'm never [ever] going to fall on it, and I do use it for half the anchor because frankly there's not a single frigging coherent or rational argument against doing so. Again, it's a real choice plum as first-world climbing issues go.

Josh Cameron · · M.O.A.B. · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,120

The PAS is just a way for Metolius to make more money by instilling fear in the climbing community. A Daisy chain is just as bomber as a PAS in real world applications. The important thing is to never, ever, string your personal leash between your legs. Unless you're in the gym then you would cool compared with all the Prana wearing gym rats.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275
Josh Cameron wrote: A Daisy chain is just as bomber as a PAS in real world applications. 

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/experience-story?format=landing&cid=qc-lab-daisy-chain-dangers-en-glbl


Chris Hatzai · · Bend, OR · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 566
FrankPS wrote:

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/experience-story?format=landing&cid=qc-lab-daisy-chain-dangers-en-glbl




Thank you Frank. The Metolius PAS loops are individually sewn doubled over loops and are rated to 22Kn. The loops themselves individually break way higher than 22Kn.. it’s the fabric on fabric friction that causes them to break at the 22Kn rating. Strong, versatile, and super handy... 

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275
Chris Hatzai wrote:

Thank you Frank. The Metolius PAS loops are individually sewn doubled over loops and are rated to 22Kn. The loops themselves individually break way higher than 22Kn.. it’s the fabric on fabric friction that causes them to break at the 22Kn rating. Strong, versatile, and super handy... 

Just to be clear - I wasn't referring to a PAS. I was pointing out out the danger of using a daisy chain as a PAS. The daisy chain is not a PAS. Personally, I use the Sterling Chain Reactor.

Chris Hatzai · · Bend, OR · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 566

Im aware. Was just adding to the point that a daisy chain is not a reliable self anchoring tool.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,460

Tell me, what's wrong with wearing a PAS as a thong?

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275
Chris Hatzai wrote: Im aware. Was just adding to the point that a daisy chain is not a reliable self anchoring tool.

Sounds like we're on the same page.

Ryan Pfleger · · North Lake Tahoe, CA · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 15
Tradiban wrote: Tell me, what's wrong with wearing a PAS as a thong?

Sounds like we're on the same page.

Davis Badger · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2017 · Points: 248
Chris Hatzai wrote:...a daisy chain is not a reliable self anchoring tool.
A couple months ago I picked up the CAMP's new Daisy Chain Twist for use as a PAS and have to say I have nothing but good things to say about it. It eliminates the dangers of using a normal Daisy but still allows for easy and precise adjustment (moreso than a looped PAS). Also correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the nylon of the chain would be better in the case of dynamic weighting than a Dyneema or Dyneema blend PAS.
Sean Peter · · IL · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 80
Tradiban wrote: Tell me, what's wrong with wearing a PAS as a thong?

1. It's dangerous. Normally when you're falling and something (a tree branch, a rock horn) hits you right in the lower crotch, it will just bash into your private parts and then you fall right on by in moderate pain but no worse for the wear.  But with a PAS thong, it will always snag a loop of the thong and cause a factor 30 fall. I know that sometimes the same thing happens when your belay loop or tie in points gets caught on said obstacles, but that's only when you're hitting the obstacle with the front part of your crotch.  It's much more common to strike these things UNDER your crotch where the thong passes.

2. It looks ridiculous. It's a pretty solid rule that EVERYONE looks very good in a harness. This is a main reason that most climbers are very successful at finding dates.  And a PAS thong really damages that look- because now the wearer looks like someone who appreciates uncluttered belay loops more than someone who is concerned with appearances.  If you want to make personal choices based on your own opinions, go take up some other sport where impressing others is not as important!

3. It's oddly sexual because nothing makes one think of skimpy underwear more than 7 loops of dyneema with biners clipped onto a harness.  Thinking about other people's underwear makes some climbers feel VERY uncomfortable, because now they've thought about that person's underwear and that might prove that they are attracted to that person.  Also, it's not usually discussed, but even a PAS worn in a NOT-THONG position makes people think of underwear. That's often the main underlying reason to vocally speak out against them in general.

I don't use a PAS
Josh Cameron · · M.O.A.B. · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,120
FrankPS wrote:

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/experience-story?format=landing&cid=qc-lab-daisy-chain-dangers-en-glbl




That video is something to think about: the deadly twist. Thanks for sharing.

I still think I'll avoid the PAS (too bulky on my harness) and just start clipping into the anchor directly with the rope.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,460
Sean Peter wrote:

1. It's dangerous. Normally when you're falling and something (a tree branch, a rock horn) hits you right in the lower crotch, it will just bash into your private parts and then you fall right on by in moderate pain but no worse for the wear.  But with a PAS thong, it will always snag a loop of the thong and cause a factor 30 fall. I know that sometimes the same thing happens when your belay loop or tie in points gets caught on said obstacles, but that's only when you're hitting the obstacle with the front part of your crotch.  It's much more common to strike these things UNDER your crotch where the thong passes.

2. It looks ridiculous. It's a pretty solid rule that EVERYONE looks very good in a harness. This is a main reason that most climbers are very successful at finding dates.  And a PAS thong really damages that look- because now the wearer looks like someone who appreciates uncluttered belay loops more than someone who is concerned with appearances.  If you want to make personal choices based on your own opinions, go take up some other sport where impressing others is not as important!

3. It's oddly sexual because nothing makes one think of skimpy underwear more than 7 loops of dyneema with biners clipped onto a harness.  Thinking about other people's underwear makes some climbers feel VERY uncomfortable, because now they've thought about that person's underwear and that might prove that they are attracted to that person.  Also, it's not usually discussed, but even a PAS worn in a NOT-THONG position makes people think of underwear. That's often the main underlying reason to vocally speak out against them in general.

I don't use a PAS

So, I was right! Anti-PAS thong people are homophobic!

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 456
Sean Peter wrote:

1. It's dangerous.

2. It looks ridiculous.
3. It's oddly sexual because nothing makes one think of skimpy underwear more than 7 loops of dyneema with biners clipped onto a harness. 
I do use a PAS and agree with the first two points; Sean is on his own with the third...
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Beginning Climbers
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