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climbing ban at ramapo powerlines


Morgan Patterson · · CT · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,860
jon crefeld wrote: With good stewardship we will all be able to enjoy the local climbing, and this may very well open more doors in the future. More Info
Amazing work Jon and crew... great to see PIPC is actually interested in working with climbers... next up the Hudson river cliffs!
worth russell · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 40

Boulder bum thoughts/comments?

boulderbum · · NY · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 0

i stand by everything ive said - place is a chosspile, only the greenest of gumbies fresh from the gym would think otherwise.

the rock is friable, sharp, and suspect - and houses one of the biggest snake dens in the hudson valley.

much better climbing within hiking distance from torne mtn (real name)...im just thankful the whiteknight traddie brigade knows nothing about them.

Steve Knowlton · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 15
boulderbum wrote:Takes a real POS to invite a park commission member to a climbers forum. Crefeld you are the only one who benefits from this, with your gumby ass guide sales. Enviroman, get a clue...nobodys saying we should dig out caves or exterminate the rattlers...what i said was people shouldnt be climbing there, period. The snake population is thriving and the rock quality is terribly brittle. From the pipc's perspective....powerlinezzzthhh should be the last place in the state that is opened to climbing legally. It is quite literally a shithole, and its mostly beginner/non experienced climbers who would waste time hiking in to such low quality rock.
Maybe you're the clueless one, Buehler. A full environmental review was undertaken as part of the plan before the climbing management plan was approved by the PIPC, and no adverse effect was found on any animal or plant population. You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.

You think the rock is choss---then don't climb there. It's that simple.

From your other posts, it's clear you are bouldering in other places. I hope that climbing is legal there. If it's not, then you're the best example of what responsible climbers have to overcome in order to get an keep access to climbing sites.
boulderbum · · NY · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 0

you missed my point entirely you old swordswallower.

bouldering is legal everywhere, always, unless youre on private land or some kind of pinko commie puke that believes he needs to sign his name on trail journals before he hikes. cause the sign says to, of course.

i dont use ropes or alter the rock so: its nobodys business what i do in the woods. i am usually fully clothed and not hurting anyone else, rangers are usually pretty nice to me. totally indifferent usually, as they should be.

maybe if i wore a bright orange helmet and hangdogged 80 ft off the deck for 2 hours above the highway, id be a little more understanding. but i dont, so im not. go climb at the transit cliffs, at least theres some historic value to along with the choss pump. and bolts so you dont have to worry about the gear you just placed, which will pop without question.

Morgan Patterson · · CT · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,860
boulderbum wrote:you missed my point entirely you old swordswallower. bouldering is legal everywhere, always, unless youre on private land or some kind of pinko commie puke that believes he needs to sign his name on trail journals before he hikes. cause the sign says to, of course. i dont use ropes or alter the rock so: its nobodys business what i do in the woods. i am usually fully clothed and not hurting anyone else, rangers are usually pretty nice to me. totally indifferent usually, as they should be. maybe if i wore a bright orange helmet and hangdogged 80 ft off the deck for 2 hours above the highway, id be a little more understanding. but i dont, so im not. go climb at the transit cliffs, at least theres some historic value to along with the choss pump. and bolts so you dont have to worry about the gear you just placed, which will pop without question.
While folks like Boulderbum have cursed the efforts made by the "whiteknighting crapy guide book maker" (and whatever motives may or may not have brought them about) the fact remains that the PIPC is now going to be operating and partnering with climbers to open land which was otherwise illegal to climb on previously.

If this effort at this choss pile is successful it will be a great diving board for which to begin the conversations about the not so chossy and amazing areas that do exist under their management. I would admit I think it could have gone very much the opposite direction BUT if it did... at least it was a crapy choss pile right boulderbum? And with it being crap the other aspect is it probably won't become a popular climbing area and thus will be much easier to manage and a more likely positive outcome (as long as folks don't disregard the agreements) and thus more likely that opening other climbing areas can be explored.

So BB as much stink as you are making about it being choss it seems like it was a great place to start with building a relationship with the PIPC. Lets hope this all goes smoothly and that this is just the start of a much bigger and better.
Steve Knowlton · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 15
boulderbum wrote:you missed my point entirely you old swordswallower. bouldering is legal everywhere, always, unless youre on private land or some kind of pinko commie puke that believes he needs to sign his name on trail journals before he hikes. cause the sign says to, of course. i dont use ropes or alter the rock so: its nobodys business what i do in the woods. i am usually fully clothed and not hurting anyone else, rangers are usually pretty nice to me. totally indifferent usually, as they should be. maybe if i wore a bright orange helmet and hangdogged 80 ft off the deck for 2 hours above the highway, id be a little more understanding. but i dont, so im not. go climb at the transit cliffs, at least theres some historic value to along with the choss pump. and bolts so you dont have to worry about the gear you just placed, which will pop without question.
Since you don't use ropes, how do you know about gear placements, or what will "pop" (brah???) or not? Get over it: hard work and cooperation did what you and others said would never happen: PIPC partnered with climbers. And I'll say it again: people like you are what make access issues difficult for responsible climbers.

And "Swordswallower"?? Really? After all the spew you've posted, you disappoint mightily with that. Got nothing left but name calling, eh? Happy trails, BB.
gmiani · · Rockland Cty, NY · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 5

Anyone who thinks the Linez is a choss pile obviously lacks experience climbing in other areas around the country (or world). Be thankful for a resource so close to NYC.

And anyone who thinks its only for weaklings lacks imagination. There is a lot of rock there and the guidebook (despite my personal misgivings about it) barely scratches the surface.
-g

boulderbum · · NY · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 0

would LOVE to know what amazing 5.8s you have sent around the globe - if you dont think torne is choss, you are :

A) smoking potent marijuana

B) a blind retarded child

C) both

harriman is mostly sharp and brittle - the southwest tip (powerlines) being the worst/most rotten.

better stuff to be found INSIDE the city....let alone outside

jon crefeld · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 210

Boulderbum - The guy who said " Climbing will never be legal there, unless you purchase the land yourself. " And, " Talks with the PIPC are beyond pointless ..." I agree with Steve, you've got nothing left but name-calling, Happy Trails, BB.

jon crefeld · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 210

And let me add my favorite 5.8s: Irene's Arete (Tetons), Moby Dick (Cochise), Otto's Route, (Col.Ind.Mon.), Frogland (RR), Wallface (ADKs), N. Early Winter Spire (Cascades), Shagadelic Tuolomne, East Buttress Middle Cathedral, P1 - Erect Direction in the Gunks! ... Let's compare notes!

And I will say Rachel's Crack 5.8 - at the Tower Wall at the Powerlinez - for a training crag? Pretty awesome.

Steve Knowlton · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 15

EPILOGUE:

Sharp End Award - Torne Valley Climbers Coalition
Access Fund is pleased to recognize the Torne Valley Climbers Coalition (TVCC) for their exemplary grassroots organizing and advocacy which successfully reopened the Powerlinez climbing area in Torne Valley, New York. Powerlinez was closed in 2011 due to concerns about increased climbing use from the area’s multiple landowners. A core team of individuals formed TVCC and began working with the local climbing community and Powerlinez’ three landowners. Each TVCC leader brought important skills to bear on the effort. TVCC’s patient, professional, and cooperative approach reopened Powerlinez in 2012 and serves as a model for successful grassroots climbing advocacy. Congratulations, TVCC!

Matt Murphy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 95

Great news! Congratulations to you guys. Thanks so much on behalf of many climbers.

Michael C · · New Jersey · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 340

Congratulations to all involved!

Still haven't climbed at the Plinez yet. Anyone looking for a partner, hit me up! Would love to check this place out.

Morgan Patterson · · CT · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,860

Congrads on the Awards TVCC!!! Great work and leadership!

Morgan
-Access Fund Regional Coordinator for CT

Vlad Napuri · · Clifton, New Jersey · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 0

I just read through this entire post thread. Cool story bros. Can't wait to go to the PLinez tomorrow to see how 'chossy', this rock is. I've only heard good things about it from the locals. Next week we'll see how much better the Gunks are..

jon crefeld · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 210

Yeah Vlad, pretty epic. Come on out!

Vlad Napuri · · Clifton, New Jersey · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 0

So, Finally got out to the Gunks. Must Say the amount of climbing there is,as well as detailed, organization and knowledge with the locals and rangers is awesome. Ramapo feels a lot more raw and undeveloped, but has beautiful areas to climb. And honestly 'Rock Dojo'(?) is so great looking at this time, with the tiny creeks and ponds throughout the Geometric, sharp Boulders leaning on one another. Both are great and totally diffrent, they should both be developed, shared and taken care of.

Thanks to the group of people who made PowerLinez possible!

How can I help? Would love to lend a hand with any projects,cleaning, or work going on up there.

jon crefeld · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 210

Thanks for the great write-up Vlad. You don't know how psyched we are to be part of so much great climbing, and the chance to show good climber stewardship.

That being said - we have got some challenges! #1) Parking. Could be a challenge with the locals if we don't park in the right area. I'll attach the diagram below, and you've got to park on Torne Valley Road - not Torne Brook Rd by the trailhead. Getting that word out!!!

And that's definitely the crux on this pitch in stewardship! Not everyone finds this website or the Facebook page: Powerlinez FB . New routes and projects are discussed at: FB Beta Shed

In the end, the climbing is great, but people have been terrific about helping out and it's made for a lot of new friends and community. We just can't do it alone.

Powerlinez Parking Guidance

4th St · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 0

I've mixed feelings.

Peterskill, it could be argued, serves a "containment" strategy of PIPC that enables forestallment of a rational climbing policy. It would thus work against climbers' larger interests.

Park administrators now "know" (and have detailed records of) what it costs to open a few dozen of their acres to climbing. You gotta build a building, pave an acre of land & pay a kid to take in money and an LEO to hassle climbers, buy toilet paper & pay a sewage company, pay "professional planners" to make a plan, write and revise a rule book, "evaluate" the program...... & etc, etc......etc....

But I don't think it's at all "black and white" as this would imply. Perhaps Torne can serve as a counter-example but one might well be skeptical.

All of Harriman is open, defacto, to camping because rangers there, basically, don't leave their vehicles. (Harirman Park police culture is dominated, apparently, by their parkway highway patrol function.)

This has been true for many decades. But to ask PIPC to make free and open camping their official policy would be utter madness & could easily invite a crackdown, which would be undesirable in the extreme. One could imagine a similar dynamic with regard to climbing. "Let sleeping dogs lie" does offer a kernel of wisdom.

The book "Yankee Rock & Ice" documents AMC climbing activity in 1930s and 40s at a couple of locations in the Ramapo Valley (Fritz W. et al.), None in the nearby Torne Valley that I recall.

Over the years, I've done bits of top-roping and scrambling in Harriman back country on both rock and ice, & never encountered any problems nor even gave much thought at the time to the PIPC ban.....Minnewaska might be a little different.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northeastern States
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