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Best Wishes

Original Post
Mike Dudley · · Vegas · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 155

I know this is a climbing site, but Tucson is my home and I just wanted to send positive wishes and thoughts to friends and family who were involved in todays tragedy. Stay strong Tucson.

Eric Krantz · · Black Hills · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 420

Sad that people who get to that point have to take others out with them. Sad that people even get to that point.

Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi? · · Vegas · Joined May 2005 · Points: 4,115

Very sad indeed. Condolences, and best wishes to the family, friends, and loved ones of the victims, and to the witnesses of such a horrible event, and to the community of Tuscon.

It's also sad that the shooter may have not received the help he desperately needed to prevent him from acting out on his impulses. We are lucky that this type of violent act doesn't happen more often in our free country- after having spent countless hours working in locked psych facilities/institutions caring for folks like the Tuscon shooter at close range, sitting on 1:1s , shooting the breeze, dressing their wounds, and such, and even entertaining them with a good table game, and even some humor, and what not, in which you hear their deepest, darkest thoughts, and many times, detailed accounts of past violent, and horrible acts they've committed, or have been done to them, whether you want to hear it, or not, it surprises me that this sort of horrible violent act doesn't happen more often out in society; as there are many desperate, unstable folks with violent tendencies, and poor impulse contol out walking the streets, who are in need of help as they slip through the cracks with their families, friends, teachers, churches, law enforcement, and even under the care of professionals too often these days.

Again, condolences, and best wishes to all involved; especially to the victims; which includes the shooter who may be mentally ill.

AJS · · Boulder, CO · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 25

Well said Gigi.

Mike Lane · · Centennial, CO · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 905

By definition, anyone who decides its time to go out and kill people (gang-banger, robber, vigilante, rapist) is mentally ill.
The question is whether they are knowingly committing an act of evil or are in an extreme state of delusion. This fucker planned this, and may have had help too, and for that he should be destroyed.

Austin Baird · · SLC, Utah · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 95

GiGi - you wouldn't justify someone who stole your car as someone who was in "desperate need of help".. You wouldn't excuse someone who raped a friend of yours as someone who "fell through the cracks". You wouldn't take back your boyfriend who cheated on you as someone who just had "poor impulse control". We all struggle to control our impulses. We live in a society that imposes constraints. Part of living in a society means learning to control our emotions and our actions. Why does this guy get a pass? Why can't I act however I want, exhibit no semblance of self-control, and then be patted on the back by society and told that they're sorry they failed me? What makes this guy so special? The only thing society owes him is a hangman's noose.

Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi? · · Vegas · Joined May 2005 · Points: 4,115

I should clarify that I wasn't trying to defend sociopaths, and evil people in general who are beyond help; I'm expressing sympathy for persons who are, or may be mentally ill perhaps not getting the help they need. Yes, we (sane) persons are responsible for our actions and should be punished to the full extent of the law for heinous acts, and I honestly believe that some people ie; child molestors, violent sex offenders, and many killers should be locked up for life, and some killers, and violent sex offenders even deserve to be executed. That said, all that awful behavior, and tendencies, whether while sane, or not, starts, or started somewhere, maybe inherited traits, but most from terrible childhood experiences, and severe mistreatment throughout their lives [it seems], and the incidences of people committing these acts hopefully can be lessened, and a few more lives saved if we can do more to prevent some folks from becoming these monsters, by us, as a civilized society, getting them help sooner than later. There happens to be a lot of ticking time bombs amongst us...

JoeS · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2008 · Points: 265

I believe that you misread GiGi's post. She stated that it was sad that this person didn't get the help (i.e. treatment) that might have prevented this tragedy. Nobody is condoning this type of behavior or suggesting that one should not be held responsible for their behavior. That said, it makes perfect sense to attempt to treat disturbed individuals so that some of these tragedies can be avoided.

Mike Lane · · Centennial, CO · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 905

I fully understand the point GiGi is making. And what she is saying, as someone on the front lines, certainly rings true. It appears this kid was well-known for nihilistic, inappropriate behavior; yet no one wanted to force the issue. I also know firsthand that there are potentially many more like him out there. Reversing course with this deranged view of reality is extremely difficult at best, we have to rely on interventions and medicating a sort of numbness into them.
And as things continue to deteriorate around us, this problem will only get worse.

Austin Baird · · SLC, Utah · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 95

After rereading it I think y'all are right. I've gotten so tired of people thinking that stricter gun laws or blaming Sarah Palin (whom I hate btw, I just don't think she's responsible) will fix the issue. I'ts all about personal responsibility to me. Anyways - with that issue in mind I think I read GiGi's post and willfully misinterpreted it so I could go on that rant. That was disingenuous of me. Lo siento.

JoeS · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2008 · Points: 265

I commend you're ability to honestly access your previous post.

chuck claude · · Flagstaff, Az · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 225

while maintaining balance with free speech, the hate rheotoric websites and talk radio shows that feeds those with sick minds should be held partially responsible. While the mornon who pulled the trigger is 100% of their actions, hate rheotoric media just adds fuel to an already volatile situation.

Mike Lane · · Centennial, CO · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 905

Not to defend the despicable nature of rhetoric flowing through the media these days, but in this particular case it was not the culprit or even much (if any) of a contributing factor. Reading this guy's behavior's made my hair stand on end due to personal experience. This guy is academically intelligent, and also is not insane. What he does suffer from is, to state it in common terms, is extremely defective thought processes. There's a myriad of factors that leads to this including delusions of grandeur and a very deep depression.
There is no way to apply reason and logic to their deep-set fanatical beliefs, even though there is no logic whatsoever with those beliefs.
The world is not playing according to his rules, therefore he wants it to burn.
It takes immense intervention to clear this mess out once it sets in.
Yes, he ventured into White Supremacy; drawn to the flame of hate. 40 years ago it would have been Bill Ayers. Doesn't matter, the hate is the important part. He is a descendent of Manson, Klebold and Harris.
They all think they are special, and when society fails to notice and also keeps moving on they fill up with evil. There are common traits, they should be well-known to everyone so we can spot them earlier.
In the meantime, he knew he was committing evil and chose to anyway, he needs to be destroyed.

Paul Davidson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 605

Here's to the recovery of all involved in the Tucson incident.

And a nod to those of you who work with the mentally ill in society. I have no doubt that your tireless work prevents other tragedies from occuring.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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