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Colorado Thief caught in the act at Smith


England · · ? · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 270
Mike Anderson wrote:I am amazed by some of the arrogance in this thread. How can you say you've never sport climbed, then go on to lecture people about it? I fully understand if fixed draws rub you the wrong way, but have some bloody humility and admit that maybe you don't know everything there is to know about everything. I wouldn't go into a donkey-f***ing thread and tell people what lube to use, but I bet some of you guys would....
Astroglide!
Michael Dupont · · Woodbury, MN · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 35
episteme wrote:“Finders keepers” is a nursery rhyme, not a succinct summary of personal property law.
Damn, does this mean I can no longer site the case of "F. Keepers vs. L. Weeper" as precedent?
-sp · · East-Coast · Joined May 2007 · Points: 75
Pat Erley wrote:This should sum things up. www.xtranormal.com
That made the entire thread worthwhile.
Allen Sanderson · · Oootah · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,187
8egg.nu wrote:Might i remind everyone that the folks out there hanging their draws are giving us all a chance to get better at climbing by climbing stuff we might be afraid we would have to leave our own gear on. more often than not these are the people developing new routes and climbing venues too. To those folks i say thanks for all the hard work and commitment. leave all the draws you want and thanks.
Utter BS. Most climbers get stronger by launching themselves at a route and placing gear - whether it clipping a bolt or slamming in a cam. Folks hanging draws and leaving draws are doing it for themselves and no one else. Yeah sometimes after a long period of time the draws get left behind perhaps even forgotten. But I seriously doubt that Ian et. al. will be leaving their draws once they have their pink point.

As for leaving gear behind cause you failed. Most climbers have a bail biner that they can leave. If a climber is leaving bail biners left and right perhaps they should either get on routes that are more within their grade or climb smarter and learn how to bail off of a bolt without leaving crap behind.

As for the whole leaving draws while projecting a route. Climbers have been leaving ropes and crap at Smith longer than most on this site have been able to wipe their own ass. I saw ropes hanging while climbing at Smith in the late 70s. Butt (pun intended) that does not make it right. Climbers should do their best to minimize their impact at all times. Park rangers should especially know this creed. Clean up your and your dog's crap when you leave, take your draws down, erase your tick marks, pick up your cigarette butts and tape, etc. etc.

Finally, while I cannot condone leaving draws, removing draws for whatever reason (safety, annoyance, want to use your own) without making any attempt to return them to owner is to be condemned. The perp is a douche. He is not a climber nor a member of the climbing community. He is simply a common thief looking to take advantage of an opportunity and is no better than the meth heads who have ripped off any number of us off in the recent past.
P LaDouche · · CO · Joined Apr 2007 · Points: 15
JulianM wrote: Why so obtuse? Are you as big an ass in real life as you are here? I pity your "friends."
I'm sorry, does the word pinkpointer make you feel the need to call me an ass? I just say it as I see it Julian, pinkpointers/gym climbers seem to feel like they have some special power to call the shots at world class climbing areas and I think thats complete bullshit. 14a, 5.8+, it doesnt matter. The rules shouldnt change, clean your shit up or take the risk of it going home with someone else. Its just a few draws, if they are that important to you then take your draws home with you, its simple.

It all boils down to lazy behavior really, how long would it take someone projecting a climb to actually hang the draws without getting too pumped on a climb above their actual onsite level so they could give it a few burns that day? an hour at most.
aaron davidson · · Denver, Co · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 0

this guy is a total d bag!
thats stealing no matter what, i dont support leaving your beaners on a route , its not just yours but you should'nt be stealing them either! this guy is a total joke. and deserved more than just a talking to ...

Bryan Gilmore · · FLG, AZ · Joined Nov 2005 · Points: 1,225

This has to be a TROLL. You guys should win a Slashy for this. If it's not a troll, please stop calling him a Colorado climber... just 'cause a cat climbs in an oven to have her kittens doesn't make 'em biscuits!

Mike Anderson · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Nov 2004 · Points: 3,130

Question...do you guys believe in honoring local ethics?

Sam Feuerborn · · Carbondale · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 810
Mike Anderson wrote:Question...do you guys believe in honoring local ethics?
Better question: Can you define your local ethics?
Allen Sanderson · · Oootah · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,187
Mike Anderson wrote:Question...do you guys believe in honoring local ethics?
"Ethics are like erections. No matter how well intentioned they might be they are prone to sudden deflation"

Dougal Haston
jeff walker · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0
P LaDouche wrote: I'm sorry, does the word pinkpointer make you feel the need to call me an ass? I just say it as I see it Julian, pinkpointers/gym climbers seem to feel like they have some special power to call the shots at world class climbing areas and I think thats complete bullshit. 14a, 5.8+, it doesnt matter. The rules shouldnt change, clean your shit up or take the risk of it going home with someone else. Its just a few draws, if they are that important to you then take your draws home with you, its simple. It all boils down to lazy behavior really, how long would it take someone projecting a climb to actually hang the draws without getting too pumped on a climb above their actual onsite level so they could give it a few burns that day? an hour at most.
judging from your response it is clear that the answer to JukianM's question is no, you are not as big an ass in real life. you are actually an even bigger ass in real life than you are on the internet. i'll bet you are an even bigger ass than most of us can imagine.
Tim Pegg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 5
phillip wrote: Behold, the klepto-gumbie mind at work!
Thanks for addressing the point I was making. I'm glad that you can really engage in conversations which might be difficult for you and others who may hold different view points.
phillip Hranicka · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 145
Tim Pegg wrote: Thanks for addressing the point I was making. I'm glad that you can really engage in conversations which might be difficult for you and others who may hold different view points.
Please tell me the point of this:

Tim Pegg wrote:Sounds to me like the highpoint was the draw on the last bolt. If I booty that one, then come back the next day can I assume that the second-highest draw is also on the highpoint and booty that, too?


Do you really not know to leave a line of draws alone? That you talk of booty-ing draws shows that you are not concerned with the visual impacts and are, in fact, a thief.
P LaDouche · · CO · Joined Apr 2007 · Points: 15
jeff walker wrote: judging from your response it is clear that the answer to JukianM's question is no, you are not as big an ass in real life. you are actually an even bigger ass in real life than you are on the internet. i'll bet you are an even bigger ass than most of us can imagine.
Hey, yet another name caller that cant argue any of the points I have made! I probably wouldnt even be posting on the thread if the guy confronting the elf hadnt made such a douchy comment about the grade of the climb. Plus I have spent many hours of my life hanging draws before sending and it hasnt killed me yet. Clipping worn out biners is another story all together.
taylorpur · · vancouver, bc · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 5

dont want to risk having your gear stolen, dont leave it unattended

red point is ground up placing all gear be it draws or what ever

having draws in place makes a climb faster and easier to send

if i left my mountain bike at a trail head with the intent to ride it the next day i wouldnt be suprised when i returned to find it gone.

look after your stuff if you want to keep it.

jeff walker · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0
taylorpur wrote:dont want to risk having your gear stolen, dont leave it unattended red point is ground up placing all gear be it draws or what ever having draws in place makes a climb faster and easier to send if i left my mountain bike at a trail head with the intent to ride it the next day i wouldnt be suprised when i returned to find it gone. look after your stuff if you want to keep it.
interesting line of argument here. "if something of yours gets stolen it's your fault, you should have been more careful" -- this is the sort of rationale used by thieves to justify their actions. if this is the way you think, then you, too, are either a thief or potential thief since you believe it is the victim's fault that he got robbed.

the "keebler elf" character in this video wasn't making an ethical statement, he was stealing. when you say that if you left your mountain bike at a trailhead and came back to find it gone, and that this wouldn't surprise you, are you also saying that the thief's actions are justified and that if you caught him in the act you wouldn't try to stop him from taking your bike? after all, you are the moron who left there so by your own argument you deserve to lose it.

somehow i suspect you'd try to get your bike back.
P LaDouche · · CO · Joined Apr 2007 · Points: 15
JLP wrote: Pinkpointer. I found your posts interesting until this thread.
Yes but not a lazy ass pinkpointer. Big difference.
Christopher M. · · Campton, NH · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 15
taylorpur wrote:dont want to risk having your gear stolen, dont leave it unattended red point is ground up placing all gear be it draws or what ever having draws in place makes a climb faster and easier to send if i left my mountain bike at a trail head with the intent to ride it the next day i wouldnt be suprised when i returned to find it gone. look after your stuff if you want to keep it.
What if you left your car at the trailhead overnight, would you expect it to be there the next day?
phillip Hranicka · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 145
taylorpur wrote:red point is ground up placing all gear be it draws or what ever
Quick draws don't work very well without bolts- do bolts and hangers have to be removed after each attempt and reinstalled on lead, as well?

taylorpur wrote:having draws in place makes a climb faster and easier to send
Now you're getting it! Welcome to sport climbing!
Matthew P · · Saint George, UT · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 10

Possibly related, between the 28th and 29th of December, the Virgin River Gorge had some draws stolen. The majority of them (8 or so) were taken from the first bolt of hung routes. A less-steep 13a (Space Race) had the entire route cleared. I assumed someone finished their project and cleaned it. After watching the vid here though, this route would be right up neck-beard's style and easier to clean than a lot of routes here. In addition, VRG would be right on this neck-beard's drive home if he went through vegas to utah.

edit: mistakenly said stolen bolts, but meant draws. Hilarity follows in next two posts.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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