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Climbing Attitudes


willeslinger · · Golden, Colorado · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 25

Eh, waiting in line can usually be avoided if you're willing to be flexible. Hard to do if they're on YOUR project, but come on, you're outside climbing, do something easier and have some fun, they'll be done eventually.

The one attitude I can't stand is egotrippin'. If you're climbing 5.13, you don't get permission to be an asshole to the 5.9 climbers trying to start a conversation with you.

I think Alex Lowe said "the best climber in the world is the one who's having the most fun" or something like that. I wholeheartedly agree.

Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425
England wrote:If you think large groups suck at the crag, try ice climbing.
Ha, if that ain't the truth....

We can totally all play nice together. I don't mind sharing crags, and like meeting people. I just don't want to be forced out of an area, which has happened more than once. Leaves a sour taste in your mouth when you have to leave because a bus of people showed up and took over everything. No matter how you cut it, that's rather inconsiderate.

BUT, +1 to you Forestvonsinkafinger for giving a crap and trying to make things better!! Most guides I've met albeit very nice people, could really care less.
kachoong · · Atlanta, GA · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 180
Dusty wrote:You guys are totally right, it's so lame when popular, easily accessible crags are crowded on the weekends... My advice (for whatever that is worth...): be more adventurous, be patient, or stay at home.
^This
caughtinside · · Oakland CA · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 1,450

Here is the truth... if you're a large group and you roll into a crag, you're being assholes just by being there. Why the need to roll so deep? So you can tell yourselves your having a great time as a giant group? Because you need your hand held?

It's not the number in the group. We've all been to busy crags, and it's easy to work in and out of routes around other small parties. The big groups string up ropes and leave them there. You want to climb it, you ask, then there is loud questioning around the crag "Hey, did all 14 people get on this yet?"

The base gets crowded and loud as the group hoots at each other across the crag. Stuff is everywhere, many members of the group are lounging and loafing and making noise, telling the 1 or 2 rad leaders how great this is.

All those behaviors by themselves really aren't that bad. But there's something about the group dynamic, when you're not in the group, that really changes crag ambiance in my opinion. I probably haven't expressed it well here, but I bet most guys who don't roll 10+ deep know what I'm talking about.

Tim C · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 215

What?! Lounging and Loafing at the Crag? How Dare They!

That has to be the funniest complaint.

jarthur · · Westminster, CO · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 290

Most of you have either forgotten where you came from, or were lucky enough to find someone to take you under their wing and were never born from these large climbing groups. So for alot of us that started climbing in the last 15 yrs especially from a University Outdoors Club, or even a college class we started climbing within these big groups. I'm not going to diss on any of these groups because I certainly started in this type of environment. The first time I went outside was on a weekday with my Intermediate Rock Climbing class to Pilot Mtn, NC and we built anchors and put topropes on every route we could find for part of our final exam. Luckily for others we were there on a weekday when hardly anyone except for local hikers were there that day.

The next couple of times I went outside was with the University Outdoors Club to the RRG in '96 when the guide book was a 1/4" thick and the only warmups were Mr. Bungle at Left Flank, Sunshine/Moonbeam at Military Wall, Creature Feature at Phantasia, and Mississippi Moon at the Pocket Wall(now closed). If there were any other groups you were out of luck, but this was just the nature of the beast back then.

With over 3,000 routes and WAY more beginner and moderate routes at the RRG than '96 on a busy weekend you may need to goto another crag instead of the same ole warmups that you probably already have dialed in anyway. Chances are climbing groups will not be at some of the more unknown walls which have plenty of good routes especially at the RRG.

Yes I personally get bummed when I see large groups of climbers, but it's pretty easy to get a feel for how large those crowds are when you drive by Military Wall/Left Flanks parking lot and it's already full by 10am. If I see that I pull off the side of the road and check out the guidebook for an area that I haven't been to before and go there instead. Try going to Orange Oswald at Summersville Lake at the NRG at 11am. Either get there by 8am and get a few warmups in, or go check out Endless Wall which is most definitely devoid of anyone even on the busiest weekends. The early bird catches the worm, or in this case the early bird didn't stand in line at The Cathedral Cafe, or around Miguel's BS'n with everyone trying to figure out where everyone else is going. Chances are they are probably warming up on these large climbing parties projects.

YDPL8S · · Santa Monica, Ca. · Joined Aug 2003 · Points: 540

There are those that feel the need to group up, be part of something that they wouldn't have the guts to do on their own, even though I started climbing for exactly the opposite of these reasons. Personally I feel that a large group would be better served by breaking into small groups and giving each person a more "individual" experience. But, there are those that need to herd, lemming like and have an audience to show off their skills or gain courage from the masses around them.

That being said, whenever I've encountered a group like this, I often have ended up adventuring out on some new route that I hadn't previously considered, and ended up experiencing an even better time than if I'd climbed at the "same ole" destination that I was originally headed to.

caughtinside · · Oakland CA · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 1,450
Tim C wrote:What?! Lounging and Loafing at the Crag? How Dare They! That has to be the funniest complaint.
heh. That does sound funny. I guess I am just a grump who finds it obnoxious when there is a group of 15, 2 people climbing, 2 belaying, 3 ropes hanging unused, and 11 people crowding the base getting in the way.
Sam Stephens · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 1,020
jarthur wrote:Most of you have either forgotten where you came from, or were lucky enough to find someone to take you under their wing and were never born from these large climbing groups. So for alot of us that started climbing in the last 15 yrs especially from a University Outdoors Club, or even a college class we started climbing within these big groups. I'm not going to diss on any of these groups because I certainly started in this type of environment. The first time I went outside was on a weekday with my Intermediate Rock Climbing class to Pilot Mtn, NC and we built anchors and put topropes on every route we could find for part of our final exam. Luckily for others we were there on a weekday when hardly anyone except for local hikers were there that day. The next couple of times I went outside was with the University Outdoors Club to the RRG in '96 when the guide book was a 1/4" thick and the only warmups were Mr. Bungle at Left Flank, Sunshine/Moonbeam at Military Wall, Creature Feature at Phantasia, and Mississippi Moon at the Pocket Wall(now closed). If there were any other groups you were out of luck, but this was just the nature of the beast back then. With over 3,000 routes and WAY more beginner and moderate routes at the RRG than '96 on a busy weekend you may need to goto another crag instead of the same ole warmups that you probably already have dialed in anyway. Chances are climbing groups will not be at some of the more unknown walls which have plenty of good routes especially at the RRG. Yes I personally get bummed when I see large groups of climbers, but it's pretty easy to get a feel for how large those crowds are when you drive by Military Wall/Left Flanks parking lot and it's already full by 10am. If I see that I pull off the side of the road and check out the guidebook for an area that I haven't been to before and go there instead. Try going to Orange Oswald at Summersville Lake at the NRG at 11am. Either get there by 8am and get a few warmups in, or go check out Endless Wall which is most definitely devoid of anyone even on the busiest weekends. The early bird catches the worm, or in this case the early bird didn't stand in line at The Cathedral Cafe, or around Miguel's BS'n with everyone trying to figure out where everyone else is going. Chances are they are probably warming up on your these large climbing parties projects.
I was going to reply, but this is exactly what I would have written. Big +1.

I was "president" of Va Tech's climbing club for two years and we did our best to keep our group sizes small at the crags, even if the whole group we took was large.
Evan S · · Erie, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 510
Jason Atkins wrote:I have seen an abundance of rude, elitist, and entitlement behavior since I started climbing than any other activity I have participated in.
I guess you don't fly fish
Lauren D. Hollingsworth · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 250

The answer: train, climb harder, then go to the Motherlode. Where there are moderates, there will be people. Where there are projects, there will mostly be a respectful hush. In between screaming wobblers anyway!

Cory Harelson · · Boise, ID · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 2,410
Evan Simons wrote: I guess you don't fly fish
...Or surf
Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 867
caughtinside wrote: The big groups string up ropes and leave them there. You want to climb it, you ask, then there is loud questioning around the crag "Hey, did all 14 people get on this yet?"
this may be one of the most annoying aspects of groups. Group leader should be mindful of this and pull any rope not in use. IMO

The second most annoying aspects of groups is the tendency to put someone on a route many many levels beyond their ability. As they fall dozens and dozens of times the belayer pulls tighter and tighter essentially hoisting them up the rock just so they can reach the top. I'm all for pushing ones limits but that is not what this is. This is not climbing in my opinion. "not every monkey gets to climb ever tree" (TB).

You don't see mountain bikers setting up tow ropes to pull their buddy up the steep technical section of the trail.

Just my opinion.
Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425
George Perkins wrote:Out of courtesy, large organized groups with a planned schedule to occupy/"take over" small or popular crags with few other nearby options might do well to post a comment or post on Mountain Project or other sites, so that others may plan accordingly.
A few MPer's have done that, which was very nice of them. Of course the world doesn't revolve around MP, but the gesture is highly appreciated!! Especially as one time was Lincoln Falls...the Bowling Alley!! {{{{shudder}}}}}
Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145
England wrote:If you think large groups suck at the crag, try ice climbing.
It's really not that much a problem as long as you steer clear of the awesomeness
Richard Radcliffe · · Louisville, CO · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 225
jarthur wrote:Most of you have either forgotten where you came from...
Definitely a +1.

I suspect that most of those doing the complaining also complain that newer climbers are rude and dangerous and uncool because they learned to climb in a gym...
1Eric Rhicard · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 8,291

I learned in a group of twenty+ on a weekend at Taylors Falls MN. A lot less people in 1975 but still we had a lot of ropes up. Our guide and my climbing mentor told us that if anyone not in our group wants to do the route let them do it. If we have a ton of folks I always tell folks they are welcome to TR or we will happily pull the rope so they can lead it. I usually tell them that as they are walking up which immediately puts them at ease and diffuses any tension. That's pretty much how we all roll down here on the Lemmon.

JML · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2009 · Points: 30
Evan Simons wrote: I guess you don't fly fish
Or golf.
JML · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2009 · Points: 30

I think that anywhere in the country you can find a quiet place to climb on any given day. You just can't be lazy.

There is a place in the western Sierra Nevada that rivals Tuolomne Meadows. Just not quite as large. Anyway, went there on a fine weekend in July and just did some easy soloing. Saw a route I wanted to do roped and went to every crag/dome/cliff in the area over the next day and a half looking for a partner. NOT A SINGLE CLIMBER IN THE PLACE! It was definitely a good news/bad news situation. I just did some more easy solos and had a great weekend...never did see another climber.

James Arnold · · Chattanooga · Joined Dec 2008 · Points: 55
caughtinside wrote: Why the need to roll so deep?
Part of it I think is that it's a 12 hour drive from iowa to the red (according to one of them). That's a lot of car time. Not like where you just go out and climb for a couple hours. Give thanks if you have rock "right up the road".

George I agree.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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