Anyone trad climb without cams?

Butterballs on nuts only is such a mindblower. I would be phucked with a capital 'F' if I had to do that!

Mostly, I climb to climb, not to futz with gear, so I save the passive stuff for the A1, 'put-a-nut-here-dummy' spots and plug cams in order to keep moving.

I could, I suppose, go out and try hard stuff with a rack of nuts, but since that style basically amounts to placing gear rarely, punching it a lot, avoiding the pump like the plague, and never, ever falling- how different would that be from leading with a skeleton rack of anything?

And if it's not hard, who cares? Then your pro is just for backup and anchors. And the crafty feeling of playing with your nuts.

I started climbing in 1970 before cams were around. As a matter of fact, I think ball nuts were invented in around 1978 or so. My one and only ground fall was when a cam pulled out on me because I was stupid and placed it behind a loose block, so I don't really trust all of them as much as a great stopper. The old fashioned chocks in opposition is still a better directional than a cam IMO. We do carry cams and use them sometimes when they are needed (quick placements) but use them with a bit of discretion.

Last time I led Sahara Terror I used just hexes and nuts. Sometimes I like to do this because the original ascenders didn't even have nuts. I'll occasionally do Mental Physics on hexes and nuts, that crack section has several hex and nut slots more bomber than any cam.

For me here is nothing like a bomber stopper placement. They feel more secure than any cam as they never walk.

I started climbing when cams were just becoming available; we climbed on stoppers and hexes for several years (couldn't afford the cams anyway, and they looked like mickey-mouse garbage to our eyes). I distinctly remember our first cam (our referring to my older brother and I; we bought all our gear together): we found a fixed #1 Friend on Central Chimney of the Twin Owls (Lumpy Ridge), and I was able to get it out following. We thought it was a piece of junk, and did not like the thought of trusting our lives to it.

Fast forward one year, and we had a full set of Friends! Cams are nice, no doubt about it.

But to this day, I still have the motto "Never leave the ground without your hexes" (my partners chide me for this), and I almost always have a #5-7 hexes on the rack. Never cared much for tricams; I have a box in the basement with a bunch of bootied tricams that never see action (I've given many of them away over the years). My eyes are still calibrated to stopper and hex placements, and that's the first thing to go in when I'm leading, unless there's an obvious parallel sided crack (or I'm in the desert where it's all parallel sided).

Trad junkies: here's a good challenge. Climb the Naked Edge with nothing but stoppers and hexes, and no chalk, as it was first done. I did it once, and it turned out to be not that big of a deal. I place almost nothing but stoppers and hexes on that route anyway, so it wasn't too hard to wean away the few cam placements that I normally use. (Full disclosure: the Naked Edge is one of my favorite routes, and I have it dialed bottom to top). The hardest part is the hand crack on the last pitch; you have to hang on a little tighter and a little longer to drop in your (bomber) hexes.

Hexes and stoppers rule (so do cams; it's all good). Here's a pic of me at 17 or so, around 1984: hexes, stoppers, goldline rope (!! -- kernmantle had been available for many years, but this was the cheapest rope at Komitos when we started climbing; probably had been sitting on the shelf for 10 years), Asolo shoes, nothing but over-the-shoulder slings (Quick draws??? What are those?), and a broken tooth (didn't get it permanently capped until I was 18). [EDIT: Oh, yeah, and a 1-inch swami w/out leg loops -- glad I was light in those days; we got a harness not too long after this shot was taken]. A truck-stopping #6 hex is still the best piece on the planet...

--- Invalid image id: 106657220 ---

I have to front load this comment with the fact that i have a solid rack of cams BUT i try and use them only on splitter desert cracks and occasionally i'll use them when I'm at my limit but I'm totally stoked on passive pro. Like a bunch of other folks on here I got a hand-me-down rack of slung stoppers and hexes and that's what i learned on. ahh man I'm stoked on passive! You guys used the DMM torque nuts? just got 1-3 and way excited place them once some of this snow clears out.

A tricam is just a regular cam with three lobes, right? What the hell is a hex?

A hexentric, or six sided passive pro. It was an old Chouinard name for it and we old guys still may call them that. They have a nice clinky sound when doing the approach. If I was more computer savvy, I'd put up a photo, but don't know how. Help me, Mr Wizard!

I love climbing without cams. There is nothing as secure feeling than a well placed hex. And for that reason I always carry three mid sized hexs on my rack.

Allen Hill wrote:I love climbing without cams. There is nothing as secure feeling than a well placed hex. And for that reason I always carry three mid sized hexs on my rack.

except when its a number 11 placed endwise in garden sandstone with a 20 foot runout above it. that doesn't feel secure.

Dusty wrote:A tricam is just a regular cam with three lobes, right? What the hell is a hex?

and no, a tricam isn't a cam with three lobes. tricam:
ems.com/product/index.jsp?p…

EDIT: ahhhh I think he was being sarcastic. oh well. I'll keep this post so everyone knows i'm a tard.

Dusty wrote:A tricam is just a regular cam with three lobes, right? What the hell is a hex?

I tried to teach Dusty how to place a hex once. He looked at me like I just grew two heads. Obviously he has blocked the whole episode out of his mind.

i just had an epiphany. tard and trad, anyone notice a striking resembalance? haha just kidding.

Ohhh, now I remember what a tricam is. I once tried to place one of those. It was a red one, I think. Remember that episode, Jeff?

Tradster wrote:They have a nice clinky sound when doing the approach.

That explains the cowbell noises at Lumpy. I always assumed the MacGregor Ranch cattle had gotten loose.

Ok - I'll preface this by confessing that I generally climb pretty moderate routes, but my rack is almost entirely passive pro. Couple cams - but I learned to climb on hexes, stoppers, titons, etc. (and a bunch of homemade nuts), and I'm still more comfortable with those than all these new fangly things with the springs and axles and all.

swm
(and I never leave the ground without my #11 cowbells!)

Plenty of good trad done for years with just stoppers and hexes. Poor climbers don't own cams. Us 'old school' guys still know how to place them pretty fast and solid. They hold great if set right.

I like hexes more than cams in cracks that flare up and back- the hexes sit in the nice bottle nec. THey are afterall, just giant stoppers placed as such. In a similar placement, cams walk back and the tip/umbrella, etc...
That's about it for advantages on hexes, and that's why I usually don't carry them. Alpin however, tey are nice to have as bail-options and weigh less than do extra cams, so I take them now and again.

Tony B wrote:I like hexes more than cams in cracks that flare up and back- the hexes sit in the nice bottle neck...

It's true, sometimes a hex will work when a cam won't. And if you sling your hexes with tech cord through vinyl tubing, it will dampen the cow bell sound and save you that loud embarrassment.

Also, hexes are not completely "passive" pro. Then can be camed. That's why one side is longer...

Bernard Gillett wrote:I started climbing when cams were just becoming available; we climbed on stoppers and hexes for several years (couldn't afford the cams anyway, and they looked like mickey-mouse garbage to our eyes). I distinctly remember our first cam (our referring to my older brother and I; we bought all our gear together): we found a fixed #1 Friend on Central Chimney of the Twin Owls (Lumpy Ridge), and I was able to get it out following. We thought it was a piece of junk, and did not like the thought of trusting our lives to it. Fast forward one year, and we had a full set of Friends! Cams are nice, no doubt about it. But to this day, I still have the motto "Never leave the ground without your hexes" (my partners chide me for this), and I almost always have a #5-7 hexes on the rack. Never cared much for tricams; I have a box in the basement with a bunch of bootied tricams that never see action (I've given many of them away over the years). My eyes are still calibrated to stopper and hex placements, and that's the first thing to go in when I'm leading, unless there's an obvious parallel sided crack (or I'm in the desert where it's all parallel sided). Trad junkies: here's a good challenge. Climb the Naked Edge with nothing but stoppers and hexes, and no chalk, as it was first done. I did it once, and it turned out to be not that big of a deal. I place almost nothing but stoppers and hexes on that route anyway, so it wasn't too hard to wean away the few cam placements that I normally use. (Full disclosure: the Naked Edge is one of my favorite routes, and I have it dialed bottom to top). The hardest part is the hand crack on the last pitch; you have to hang on a little tighter and a little longer to drop in your (bomber) hexes. Hexes and stoppers rule (so do cams; it's all good). Here's a pic of me at 17 or so, around 1984: hexes, stoppers, goldline rope (!! -- kernmantle had been available for many years, but this was the cheapest rope at Komitos when we started climbing; probably had been sitting on the shelf for 10 years), Asolo shoes, nothing but over-the-shoulder slings (Quick draws??? What are those?), and a broken tooth (didn't get it permanently capped until I was 18). [EDIT: Oh, yeah, and a 1-inch swami w/out leg loops -- glad I was light in those days; we got a harness not too long after this shot was taken]. A truck-stopping #6 hex is still the best piece on the planet...

this is a little off the subject

i find it hard to listen to somebody who can challenge other people to do things while they themselves put bolts next to cracks and good placements, and cant even man up to it!

It bothers me to know that people do things like this for MONEY!!!

Sorry BG but discretion with bolts is JUST AS important as leading with p\p !!!
You should not have given your two cents towards this subject after bolting the hell out of the december wall up hwy 7!!! there is a walk-off therefore rap anchors are an eyesore and a waste of metal and rock. I dont care about your guide, i refuse to buy it for the above reasons!