Geezer Wall Bolt Removal

Budge,

Can I get an amen.

PT

bsmoot wrote:Haven't been to the Geezer Wall but the Wasatch has a tradition of not placing bolts next to cracks on slab climbs. Don't know if this was the case, but if so, it would be great if the FA party would take this into consideration.

I climbed there once last month. Unfortunately, our day was shortened by thunderstorms, so we didn't get to do the upper routes, which looked pretty good from the ground.

The lower stuff was to me overkill, 5.5 (at most) with bolts every 8 to 10 feet, somewhat gear protectable, and I suspect the main reason the routes got chopped. They were certainly catered to a different user group than most BCC routes, and not in a style that made much sense to me, but having said that I don't condone chopping them. I suspect the concern from the chopper is the proliferation of "convenience climbing" and the crowds they will draw. My concern would be the somewhat steep talus which may not support a sport crag very well. Hard to say. I think the lesson to be learned is that there is a limit to how much of this style climbing is going to be acceptable.

The upper routes, which I think should go back in, are on flatter terrain and the rock is good quality and reasonably steep.

As for the wilderness boundary issue, I don't see it as being necessarily clear cut. First, the boundaries were not drawn with such precision as to reflect actual usage. Second, the crag is completely hidden from any foot traffic. Third, you're looking down on the BCC highway watching all the highway traffic go by while you climb. Its not really a "wilderness experience."

Dave Budge wrote: I haven't met anyone who busts his/her ass harder than Mike.

This is truth. You should have seen him getting after that boulder on the Quarry Trail a few weeks ago.

Dave Budge wrote: Thanks to everyone who came to the SLCA Crag Day last Saturday. Amazing! Surely some of you must still be sore.

Hey Dave, good to meet you on Saturday. The muscles in my hands are still sore from lifting so many stones and working those tools. Looking forward to getting back out there to check the work out and finish it up.

Robert

SpencerTaylorParkin wrote:I've been keeping up with the thread and after hearing more and more of both sides of the issue, I'm becomming less resolved in some of my earlier convictions. Clackmon seems a bit hostile, but I think I can see where he's coming from and he has good points. I honestly just don't know what to think anymore. Perhaps the best thing for me to do is just learn as much as I can about traditional climbing so that I can climb with the least dependence on fixed gear. This is part of my goal anyway to become more independent in the mountains.

That's good to hear. :)

Wow.
Gone for and week and this happens. The last thing I did before leaving town was climb the upper routes. Yes they were well protected but the climbing was fun and thoughtful. This wall was a wonderful addition to the SLC crags and I was looking forward to doing the lower routes with my 6 year old daughter.
The east side of the drainage and this wall were seldom visited by anyone. When is the last time someone hauled themselves up there just to climb Redrum? All this debate about grid bolting, bolts next to cracks, routes and bolts being too close together on this wall is horse shit. If your put off by the thought of using some of the same holds to climb different routes then go somewhere else. The geezer is tall, for a sport crag, with great stone, a peach that should have been picked awhile ago.

Sargent and the boys picked it, not anyone else, and developed it in a style they saw fit. The routes were a mix of gear and closely spaced bolts this is nothing new in the Wasatch. Greg, Tyler and Tristan have been adding incredible climbing here for more than a few years in similar style. Even Mr. Smoot goes less far between the hardware than he use to.

This is the Wasatch we've got plenty of bold routes of every kind here. There is no shortage of ass puckering run outs at almost every grade, both bolted and trad, to keep the Internet enabled hardmen happy, hard as nails and armed with tales of their badassness.
What there is not a lot of is climbing of the Geezer Wall variety and it is F*&ked up beyond comprehension how someone could have taken it upon themselves to steal this wall from the FA's and the community.

I for one will pitch in for gear, patching and hand drilling to restore this climbing.

clackmon wrote: fear not...i am developing a new crag in the canyon with bolts every 5 inches so my 18 month old can lead the routes. there will be a fixed pacifier at the belays. clean them when you're done.

Let me guess...you live in Boulder Colorado?

clackmon:

Most folks with a "do" like you would not need to be reminded about guideline #1. Sure hope you can climb better that you can reason. A real ledgend in your own mind.

clackmon wrote:telluride i get it though you were trying to be funny

Yeah.

So, what are you trying to be?

clackmon:

No I don't know you, and from what I've read from your entries lately, (not only this thread) I am really not shure I would want to. You don't impress me. I've been reading about bolt wars since 1973. You really sound like some of the first anti-bolt freaks. Bolts are only acceptable on hard climbs, for us hard men. Take a look at some of the 5.12 climbs with bolts every 3 feet. Maybe it's just me, a cranky old unemployed guy, but just lighten up a bit. It doesn't cost a thing.

clackmon wrote: fear not...i am developing a new crag in the canyon with bolts every 5 inches so my 18 month old can lead the routes. there will be a fixed pacifier at the belays. clean them when you're done.

That would certainly use up a lot of quickdraws. How long were you planning on making this route? 50 feet? That would be about 120 quickdraws.... any plans on making a new harness to carry that much gear?

clackmon wrote:telluride

douche bag alert.

White guy with dreads from colorado with a holier than thou attitude.

I lived in Boulder for 3 years. I don't know this guy personally, but I know this guy.

Maybe there should be a rule about people from rado posting in the utah forum.

Had a great sit down this evening with Jonathan, Dave and Rob from Salt Lake Climbers Alliance so we could clear the air and figure out about Geezer Wall. I believe SLCA is the best source for Salt Lake climbers to gain a voice and empower changes as we go forward with increasing number of climbers, differing opinions and face whatever else the future may hold. I feel assured that the SLCA is working towards improving avenues of communication and understanding from both within SLCA and for the community at large. I support the SLCA mission statement and anyone willing to look beyond their personal differences for the greater good of our climbing community. I look forward to working more closely with this organization in the future. Thanks guys,Mark Sargent

Woah, pieace love and happiness guys.

Mark Sgt wrote:Had a great sit down this evening ...Thanks guys,Mark Sargent

Mark, you are setting an honorable precedent with your actions. All the MP fodder boils down to little in the long run and should be considered for what it is: the ramblings of passionate yet terribly bored climbers trapped at work.

Have you considered setting up a donation vehicle (eg paypal)? Even if it only collects enough to cover a single route, it would be worth it.

clackmon wrote: i would rather not see an entire cliff grid-bolted. yeah i am some guy from colorado that quite a few of you believe doesn't belong in this discussion. as if whatever occurs in SLC is done in a vacuum.

I've climbed there and it was not grid bolted. You haven't yet you continue to speak from a position of authority which you do not have. You are welcome in our discussion however I suspect the only reason you continue to talk around our campfire is because your not welcome at anyone else's.

clackmon wrote: i guess if grid bolted moderates are y'alls cup of tea have at it. you want to put in a bunch of easy climbs for novice climbers to clip up? have fun.

From your impressive list of ticks on this site moderates for novices are clearly beneath you. However SLC has a large climbing community and not everyone here climbs as hard as you.

clackmon wrote: toughen up. if someone disagrees with you on the internet you'll be ok. calling me a 'prick' or a 'douchebag' just makes you look immature and certainly adds nothing to the topic at hand. you can call me anything you want, i am not going to quit posting here.

We don't need to toughen up, disagreement is fine. You my friend are a walking cliche and are making yourself look immature, talking like a "douchebag" and folks have simply recognized this and called you out.

Brian in SLC wrote: Let me guess...you live in Boulder Colorado?

That made me laugh. Nice troll !

Did you hear they just closed the Creek to all Col Rads. Something to do with vegans and real beer ? anyone got any info on this ?

These comments are starting to look like they came from youtube.

Mark Sgt wrote:Had a great sit down this evening with Jonathan, Dave and Rob from Salt Lake Climbers Alliance so we could clear the air and figure out about Geezer Wall. I believe SLCA is the best source for Salt Lake climbers to gain a voice and empower changes as we go forward with increasing number of climbers, differing opinions and face whatever else the future may hold. I feel assured that the SLCA is working towards improving avenues of communication and understanding from both within SLCA and for the community at large. I support the SLCA mission statement and anyone willing to look beyond their personal differences for the greater good of our climbing community. I look forward to working more closely with this organization in the future. Thanks guys,Mark Sargent

Seems an apology to Mike White would validify you're turn-about on the SLCA issue here.

clackmon wrote: fear not...i am developing a new crag in the canyon with bolts every 5 inches so my 18 month old can lead the routes. there will be a fixed pacifier at the belays. clean them when you're done.

hey, i'm just trying to get in touch with the pseudofarian, slackmon. let me know when you get that crag developed; i wanna tap that shit!! is that really a picture of you, slackmon, or did you snap a photo of some trustafarian mommy's boy at a phish concert and photoshop it on your body?