3-Day Trad Camp at NRG

Come join us for 3 days of trad instruction at New River Gorge with Arno and Elaina
-
April 4-6, 2008
-
Targeted Students:
1. Learn traditional climbing gear placements and crack climbing technique
2. Improve safety awareness
3. Gain a heightened degree of mental focus through applying the Warrior’s Way program
4. Pre-requisites: Able to lead 5.9 sport, OR top-rope 5.10a with no falls; completion of a lead climbing course at your local gym; climb indoors/outdoors at 1-2 times per week; and at least 6 months of continuous climbing experience in the last year.
-
Instructors
Arno Ilgner and Elaina Arenz-Smith
-
Skills covered in the TRAD Camp:
1. Improve your climbing skill and confidence
2. Learn traditional climbing skills, including setting lead protection and building belay anchors
3. Lead traditional routes safely and efficiently
4. Climb cracks, from finger cracks to offwidths
5. Increase the power of your strongest “muscle”, the brain
6. Develop self awareness, stay centered, reduce doubts and fear, fall safely, improve commitment, gain fluidity, and increase problem-solving skills
7. Have a fun-filled, educational climbing experience
-
Camp Includes:

• In addition to the list below, all climbing equipment is included except: climbing shoes, harness and belay device
• Lodging for 2 nights at a local Bed & Breakfast
• 3 breakfasts
• 3 days of guided instruction
• Technical climbing equipment

Sounds like a great opportunity for those who have ___________ thousand dollars.

Prerequisites for this board include one single contribution before spamming.

Hi Jed,
I've posted notifications like this before. For contributions, are you referring to posting on mountain project. If so, you're right. I haven't posted. I should do more in that regard. I am curious though if it is appropriate to post notices like this at all. I've been given the go ahead from some MP users.
Tell me how I should proceed.
Arno

Hi Arno -
Your situation is a difficult call, or, maybe not. Many here, including me, have been quick to "criticize" those who take advantage of the "free" mp.com forum and community for self-serving (commercial) endeavors. While I appreciate your book and class offerings, I would say your solicitations blatantly fall into this category, which most (I) would discourage. As has been suggested before, perhaps the admin of mp.com might consider an area of the website dedicated to PAID commercial/advertizing. That way, solicitations are forthright and up-front in their stated purposes...and not deceptive. --- Funny how you don't mention the prerequisite fees (or investments, as you say) in your advertisement. Is your 3-day session free? I didn't think so....

Hi Dave,
Thanks for the clarification. I agree. I've felt strange posting because it is definitely for profit. Some websites don't seem to mind while others do, so I'll find out from the decision makers on the site before posting. Sorry for the trouble.
Does or will MP have a place for paid advertisement? I'd be interested in what the rates would be.
Arno

Not sure on the details regarding paid advertisements on mp.com.

Contact Andy Laakman: mountainproject.com/u/andy_…

Also, you might consider contributing submissions and becoming better acquainted with the MP community. I'm sure many would welcome and appreciate your offerings.

I understand the concerns about unpaid advertising or commercialism in the forums, but I hope you'll step back from insulting remarks about spamming to recognize that there's a big difference between some corporate entity hawking their goods vs. an essentially one-man operation like Arno's giving notice of a training course. I've seen promos on this site for bouldering comps, DVDs and speaking tours by climbers, and none of them were free either.

Hopefully Andy will make a ruling on this, but it would be a shame to see a climber training resource as valuable as Arno get run off of MountainProject just because he makes a living from the services he provides.

JL

Frankly, I don't mind these kind of announcements. Like Saxfiend mentioned, there is difference between the above post, and Toyota pimping their latest minivan.

I don't think MP is at risk of being overrun by posts regarding for-profit-events, and then we can always cross that bridge once we get there.

We don't really have an easy way for folks to post about events here - the current events system is a little assbackwards - so I think the forum is an acceptable substitute in this case.

Here's my perspective:

I actually took the above mentioned course this past October with Arno, and would totally recommend it to anyone looking to enhance their trad gear, mental, and physical skills on the rock.

That said, I found out about the course by a forum post on a gym's website from the previous year - I then assumed that maybe they were offering a class this year and checked out the website. I see a big difference between ads for the latest gear and this type of event. Maybe we should have a separate forum for this type of thing?

Arno, like others have said, I'd love to see you documenting some of your FAs at places like Whitesides on MP!

I agree, submissions from Arno would be great.

MP designates: Home - Destinations - People - Partners....

Why not create space/links specifically for climbing "Events", "Classes", and/or other similar announcements?

Arno,

If you have these camps coming up, email me I can post up in the events calendar for you.

Cheers

John

First off, I don't post very often on MP.com. There, I said it. Exactly how many times do you need to post before you may claim to have anything significant to contribute? Second, can we just chill out? Some of the responses that I've read here (and elsewhere on MP.com) come off as unnecessarily hostile and adversarial. I thought we were all here because we love to climb and enjoy interaction with a vast network of others who enjoy the same? To this point, I have been under the impression that MP.com was an more or less open forum for the exchange of ideas, thoughts and resources related to our shared passion. If you don't like what Arno has posted, for example, ignore it. I'm always amused at how bold and combative some people are when protected by the relative anonymity of online postings, email, etc.

And as an aside, I, too, would welcome any further contributions Arno might wish to make. I've not known him to speak without having something worthwhile to say.

Arno, thanks for the way you've responded here; respectfully and courteously. I appreciate your choice to lead by example.

Well, I also have to say that normally I don't jump into these type of "conversations", but I am making an exception here. I can't believe that anyone word give Arno crap for posting an announcement about one his upcoming clinics. Having taken two separate clinics from Arno and having met him on several other occasions, all I can say is that I would like to be a fraction of the person, let alone climber, that he is. I would say Arno is about as stand up a guy as they come. Let alone providing one of the best opportunities to improve your mental climbing approach around.

And as I am typing this, I am reminded of guideline #1: don't be a jerk, so I think I will stop there.

Thanks, Andy. Like Peter K., I've taken two of Arno's courses and found them tremendously rewarding (and a bargain for the price, in my opinion). I've also found him open to correspondence through emails when I've had a question or concern about mental aspects of my climbing. And in the past, he's been active on the forums on rockclimbing.com on the same subject matter. The Warrior's Way forum on rc.com hasn't seen much activity recently (flame wars being a more popular pastime there); now that there's an active training forum here on MountainProject, maybe Arno will find it worth contributing to.

arno wrote:For contributions, are you referring to posting on mountain project. If so, you're right. I haven't posted.

I'm glad to see the tone that this thread is finally taking.

As some have mentioned, this is not a shameless merchandise plug from some corporate retailer. Arno is offering a unique way of enhancing one's climbing abilities, and it is to the benefit of anyone in need of those skills to know when these classes are available.

I think what Arno offers is very much in line with what this site is all about (supplying information to help elevate our climbing experience), and I support his having the freedom to make such announcements.

A note to Arno:

Maybe it would seem less like an advertisement if you posted just the title of the event and date, and then included a link to your site so that people could read the specifics over there. That might help to avoid the potential issue of other guide services feeling like you are receiving special advertising privileges. Just a thought.

KC

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for the comments. I do understand the concern about letting one person post a for-profit event and then having everyone justify doing it, individual or corporate. RC.com has a forum category called "upcoming events" and they don't mind anyone/everyone posting on it, as far as i understand it.
-
Also, great idea about just posting the basic message or title of the upcoming training event and then having a link for folks to click that leads them to my site for more info. Keeps the post on MP.com smaller and less intrusive.
-
I do want to post more on MP.com especially short training articles. I'll check into doing that.
Arno

Everyone please forgive the tone of my first post. I wasn't trying to make a big deal out of Arno's post, but I overreacted and created a little unnecessary tension.

Arno,
I certainly wouldn't mind seeing occasional solicitations if you contribute your valuable knowledge and experience to the MP community.

Hi Jed,
No worries. You brought to everyone's attention an issue that probably needed to be addressed. I do intend to post more and also post some articles.
Best,
Arno