Pro bolt on N Chimney of Castleton?

Anyone know if that manky Star-Dryvin pro bolt on N Chimney of Castleton is original? Someone told me years ago that while it looks like it's ancient, it might not be from the FA. I'm planning on doing the route again in a couple weeks, and I can replace it then if it's original.

I won't have computer access until next week, so apologies if I don't respond.

Greg

PS Sam, I'm having some email trouble, I don't have any of those Yates rings, but I have a good number of the beefy Fixe stainless steel rings.

I don't know if its original or if its still there. However, a #4 or 4.5 Camalot fits perfectly at that spot, so I would not be in favor of replacing the bolt, regardless.

My vote... Do not replace!

Monomaniac wrote:I don't know if its original or if its still there. However, a #4 or 4.5 Camalot fits perfectly at that spot, so I would not be in favor of replacing the bolt, regardless.

I agree. Why replace a bolt when it is clearly protectable by modern gear?

Greg, on your profile page you wrote that your favorite climbs are “ones without any bolts that need replacing”. I think it is great that you are willing to fix a piece of fixed gear that you believe could provide a false sense of security. However, in this case there seems to be enough evidence that using a large cam or big bro provides the same level of safety as a new bolt. So add N Chimney of Castleton as one of your favorite climbs since it doesn’t need bolt replacement.

As a side note, I love seeing old pins, bolts or fixed gear on routes when I can supplement them with other forms of protection. Every time I pass one I reflect on the boldness of earlier climbers. Regardless if that bolt was part of the FA or not it is still really cool. I’m sure that bolt has been mentioned in many campfire chats when friends are sharing beta about the route.

Lastly, I want to thank you for asking the climbing community about this before making a decision on your own.

Greg
I was gonna replace it when I did the anchors... maybe we could work together, finally. As per whether it is there from the FA or not, I will find out from the FA guy. I know nothing of the #4 Camalot placement but if its so, its so. If it was there on teh FA and the camelot placement is even remotely sketchy, it should be there. IF not, perhaps not. We can debate it if not, but if Dan B placed it in 1970, it should remain.... no reason to go rewriting history.
Sam

It's been a while since I did this route but I remember having to climb a bit above the bolt before a #4 would go in. I think you need a 4.5 or 5 to protect anything lower but the placement is in no way sketchy.

If it matters, I'm in favor of leaving things as they are...

I support leaving it as it is. A #4 might not fit right where the bolt is, but a #5 might. Either way it is protectable with gear.

I am pretty sure a #4 C4 does not fit by the bolt. I did not lead the pitch, but I am pretty sure my partner had a #4 a ways below and one a few feet above it.

An old style 4.5 or 5 fits really well there. Leave the old bolt for a history lesson, but nothing new needs to go in.

The move can be protected by a number 5. However, it is easy to get to the spot where a number 4 can fit (just above the bolt). Please don't replace the bolt. It isn't necessary and it adds character to a great route.
Ronnie

QUESTION RESOLVED!
I just spoke to Dan Burgette who did the first ascent. He did not place that bolt and he does not like the fact that the bolt was subsequently placed after his ascent.
As far as I'm concerned, out it comes!
Sam

Wow! An issue was resolved and not made worse on an internet forum! Amazing.

Information about the North Chimney on the web should be edited once the bolt is removed to give people a heads up.

What's the problem with just leaving it there? That seems to me to be the "lowest impact" solution at this point.

Some day soon we will all lament the fact that there is nowhere we can go to see old rusty star drives.

I agree with Mike. What's wrong with leaving it there? If it was placed last week then, sure, it makes sense to remove it. But back in the day before #5 Camalots, most climbers were psyched to have it there, and even today it provides some peace of mind. It's been around long enough that it's part of the route's history, and it adds a little character to the whole experience.

"Some day soon we will all lament the fact that there is nowhere we can go to see old rusty star drives."

If Ken Yager finds a permanent home for the Yosemite Climbing Museum you'll be able to see rusty star drives, the original "stoveleg" pitons and lots of other historical mank.

In-situ old mank is however a novel touch on a classic route.

So much for consensus ;)

Mike Anderson wrote:What's the problem with just leaving it there? That seems to me to be the "lowest impact" solution at this point. Some day soon we will all lament the fact that there is nowhere we can go to see old rusty star drives.

I see what you are saying. But, the problem with leaving it there is that somebody may climb the route without realizing that it should not be replaced with a new bolt, and thus may replace it.

Chris Miller wrote:In-situ old mank is however a novel touch on a classic route.

Definitely, when the in-situ mank is in some way relevant to the history of said classic route, which in this case it is not.

The only thing worse than mank is retro-mank.

If it is removed(I'm not in favor of this option)it should be patched somehow. The only thing worse then a new bolt would be a hole in the rock.

Still, I say just leave it alone. If someone takes it out, someone else, who isn't into reading online chats, is going to climb it and think to themselves "hey there used to be a bolt here, I should replace it".

Lets tally this up...
Remove bolt = first ascentionist didn't place it and doesn't want it, numerous people say there is other pro for the spot, its rusting, spinning, and probably will not hold 3 more falls.
Leave Bolt = the world is running out of rusty, spinning star drives and they, like the small pox virus, will be missed when gone (even though there are at least a dozen other star drives on this tower, not to mention in the desert, much less the world).
Replace bolt = almost no arguemnt

hmmm

IIRC when we did the route we skipped the bolt cause of how it looked. I would be in favor of it being removed and patched.

If left as is, it becomes a hazard. That is if it is not already one which it probably is. The other is that if left, there is the potential for others who would not have this discussion to come along and replace it themselves.

If nothing else pull the hanger and stick the drive back in - then folks can see a rusty star drive but not have anything to clip :-D