Stashed Crash Pads in RMNP

I am in agreement with most of the people who replied to this thread, and I think stashing pads is a bad idea. In fact, I don't really understand the practice at all. Unlike some other comments, I also believe that stashing gear at the base of climbs, if you are hiking out, is bad form. I believe that if you are hiking out, you should take everything you came in with; if not more.

I think most of the people who stash the pads see no reason not to, and many will stop if they realize that there are consequences. They have been doing it for so long that they don't believe that anything negative will result. Furthermore, a wilderness ethic has not been instilled into many young boulders and they don't understand how much the trash and stashed pads takes away from others experience in the park.

Probably, the answer is to start removing the pads and posting in a public place and on the internet where the pads are located and how to get them back. Some will claim that the pads should not be returned, but I believe that will only cause undue tension within the climbing community.

We may very well lose access to the areas around Evans because of this also.

i am a boulderer, and call me cheap or poor, but i think pads are expensive, and anyone who wants to leave them in the park to be eaten by rodents should call me up, cuz id rather use them right....150 bucks a pop?? come on...spoiled brats

Well, it seems as though most of you believe that stashing pads in the park or anywhere else for that mater is not an acceptable practice. I don't buy the argument that because roped climbers have been stashing gear for decades at areas like Yosemite and the Diamond that it is okay to do so here. My problem with this is that it threatens future access, The Park is aware of this practice and it is, in my opinion, only a matter of time before we have regulations regarding bouldering in The Park. Unless we police ourselves.
Also I'd like to respond to Caughtinside's comments that they "are there for someone's project. Probably something too hard for you to climb...they aren't booty." I'm not sure if you are serious with this comment. Why does how hard I climb have anything to do with this issue? If these climbers are so badass and they can climb so hard they surely must be badass enough to carry a few pads in and out. Besides I already said that I don't need these pads and when I do clean up the area I will post on this site how they can get them back it they want too.
Chris

Chris,

Go up there, hike them out and take them to the Boulder sports recyclers to cash in. With all the collage kids in town those things will sell. Even if they have some teeth marks. What you do with the money is up to you, but it sounds like a real cash cow. turn a negative into ROAD TRIP MONEY

Hey Greg Schrodt -- I know you, and I know you're a better person than your post would lead us to believe. No need to call people pussies here. Doesn't help move the discussion forward. The climbing community is too small and too tight to throw that stuff out. --J

Sounds like Greg is just tellin it like it is.

The marmot-eaten pad at Evans is disgusting. Foam bits will be blowing around up there for years. Also, I don't know how anybody could be so clueless as to think that stashing pads in a national park will be tolerated by the park service. Access to Chaos is tenuous as it is.

I have packed out litter in the form of abandoned crash pads myself, and I will continue to do so. So should anyone else who cares about keeping these areas open.

Chris,
I agree with previous posts. Take those pads and do what you like with them, give them away, sell them, announce that you have removed the pads and that owners may collect the pads on your schedule! Don't cater to these dirty scoundrals.

There is a difference between stashing gear in the bivy area under the Diamond and leaving crashpads near Emerald Lake, etc. Agreed with the above statements, remove the crashpads as they are trash. Seriously, they don't weigh that much and are not too difficult to carry. I'm not hitting boulderer's in the teeth as I enjoy bouldering myself, but seriously, stashing a crashpad because it's too heavy to carry??

Shane,

What is different about stashing (trad) gear compared leaving a pad behind?

The foam bits sound bad, but it does'nt make it right to stash gear. I see a double standard.

Also, there is no need for vigilante justice. Its better build consensus: Talk to climber organizations, the park service, everyone, see if you can get the offenders to withdraw their own pads first.

Will, I think the difference is the gear is stowed for a quick return hike for more supplies, or get food, or take care of sanitation needs for the night and then is put to use on the wall.

Whereas the pads are just left for weeks on end.

Really, for what purpose? The bouldering community really needs to take a look at this and address it.

Yes, there is a another standard; with gear for alpine climbs, you're looking at wall commitments of Grade III+ with terrain & potential weather exposure.

Chill bros. As long as the people stashing pads are mindful of the situation and they aren't leaving the pads for more than a reasonable amount of time (subjective I know) and as long as it doesn't become an issue with NPS then why complain. Who made it right for anyone to take the law into their own hands and remove the pads. Sounds like we have some NPS Vigilantes here.

Ok, I live in Estes and constantly boulder and climb in the park. This is the first year I've been bouldering up here and understand the landings are horrible. The thing is Chaos see's soo many climbers a day, that if everone brought up 1 pad, there would be plenty to make even the worst landings ok. So why stash em'. It's getting out of hand, this is a fucking national park. Man up and remove any pad that you've left up there.

On another note I've also seen a tremendous increse of trash left behind on the diamond lately, especially on the casual route. Don't be lazy and ruin the access for everyone, and if you see trash, pack it out please. This park is too beautiful for this crap.

Mark,

Yes, the guidelines you stated are a different standard. Agreed. The regs have an exception to that effect: +-24 hr. time limit, enough time to shuttle another load for the big commitment lines. I think it is reasonable and responsible.

People have been stashing gear in the alpine for longer than just a shuttle for a long time. I personally know of two seasonal (all season long) gear stashes used by different guys in wilderness areas no less. Does anyone raise a fuss? No. Why? Possibly because cams and such are smaller and easily hidden and there are no foam bits for the marmots, so there are differences, but as far as the leave no trace ethic, there is a double standard. Why the fuss now?

Now that there is a glut of free crashpads out there, how about some free cams! Email me and I'll tell you where (just kidding).

I have been hearing a lot about this from the locals in RMNP. Mostly i have been shocked at the reports of all the foam bits scattered around everywhere by the critters eating the crash pads.
I've known for a long time that we as climbers are the least conscious and most offensive user group out there. Still the fact that this issue is what is going to undermine our access to one of the most incredible places to climb in the world is just over the top. It is over the top because it comes down to some "hard" climbers just being straight up LAZY. If you can't hike a pad or two a handful of miles every day you climb then you truly are weak and your accents don't mean anything. If it really is that hard of a hike then hit the gym a couple of times a week and get into the aerobic shape you need to be in to boulder in the alpine. If it takes having more pads than you can carry then make some friends, or see a counselor about your ego issues so you can be personable and make friends. Stop being weak and making everyone suffer for your weakness.

A relevant thread from last year

Lee Smith wrote: I would take exception to stashed gear of ANY sort in wilderness areas (or even the local crag). Crash pads are exceptionally intrusive. A pack full of project gear is also intrusive. Don't be lazy. Pack it in and pack it out.

Boy is my face red.

It has occurred to me that earlier this summer I actually stashed a bunch of gear at the base of a climb. Here is the scenario:

We backpacked (55+ lb. packs) 3 miles on good trail and then bushwacked another 1.5 miles into a wilderness area where we set up a camp. Another rough .75 miles and 500 foot of elevation gain brought us to our objective--some unclimbed crags in the Mt. Evans Wilderness.

After several hours of climbing we went down to camp, but we left ropes and gear in a small cave at the base of the crag so we wouldn't have to carry it up the next day. We did this for 2 days in a row.

The likelihood of any one coming upon our gear was extremely small. We had the entire place to ourselves and would have known if any one else was in the area. Still....I stashed gear. I probably would do it again in the same situation.

So I have come to the conclusion that this is a very complex issue. But I think the guiding concern should be the obtrusiveness of the stashed gear. Marmot-eaten crash pads are very obtrusive. A couple of packs of gear stashed for 2 days in a cave 5 miles from the nearest-other-humans is very unobtrusive.

I guess we all have to gauge what others might see on their outdoor adventures, and how our actions will affect their experience.

The other issue at Chaos Canyon right now is access. We can debate if stashing pads at Chaos and stashing gear at the diamond are similar practices or different. However, the rangers do know that pads are stashed at Chaos and do not approve, thus endangering access. This fact alone should stop the practice of stashing of pads at Chaos. I believe that Chaos Canyon will be closed to bouldering if the current trend continues.

Monty - Thanks for posting about trash on the Diamond, and this may warrant another thread. There is an unacceptable amount of trash. Everyone, PLEASE be careful with your trash and take it with you. This not only goes for the Diamond, but everywhere in Rocky Mountain National Park.

A couple years ago I was hiking in the Mt. Evans area and came across a bunch of foam blowing in a little nook at the base of the apron. It never occured to me it came from a fellow climber. Disgusting.

Professional climbers? Strong climbers? Cmon, if you can't carry your equipment, you shouldn't be using it.

How do you find and contact the owner of these stashed pads?

If any pads cannot find their rightful owners, I am interested in paying very little for a used piece of trash for the occasional boulder sesh.