Hauling the Portaledge?

This might seem simple but just a question for someone who has recieved his first portaledge and seen things done a couple of ways. Should i
A. Haul the ledge below the haulbag
B. Haul the ledge on the same knot as the haulbag
C. try somehow to make it fit in the bag. Havn't seen this one
Just recieved a bd cliff cabana and the bag just doesn't seem to be the most bomber material out there. Why they wouldn't make these out of haul bag material is beyond me. Any advice would be really great.
Thanks Adam

Couple of ways to do this mate. As with everything climbing, most simple basic answer is: It Depends.

Are you climbing overhang, slab, hauling over edges.....blah blah blah.

Easiest is to hang off the bottom straps of your Haul bag which will keep your ledge from dragging as long as you're hauling up vertical.

Packing the ledge inside your haul bag is also a possiblilty, but I would suggest againt this if your ledge is too much longer than your bag and you are hauling over roofs.

Lastly, I would highly recommend against hauling them side by side unless it's a total free haul, as you're compounding the pressure on the not so stury bag of the ledge if the haul bag rolls on to it.

An alternative is to purchase/make a more bomber haulbag for your ledge-something that may or may not be worth it to you.

Good luck, and safe climbing.

Hang it under the Haul bag on a good locker together with a sling preset so when you take it off the haul bag you have no chance of dropping it.

The ledge bag is usually not as tough as a top grade haul bag since it doesn't have as much contact with rock. If it starts to wear out after a few years I'm sure Fish would be able to make a new bag for you.

Thanks for the replies guys, So i guess another question is, what would be good wall in zion to go for where if i am a complete cluster i am not in anyones way. I.E. trade routes probably bad. Short and simple for a good test run of the ledge. Aid climbing up to c2 + with no really hard hauling. have done touchstone, shunes, iron messiah, all as day climbs.

Always wondered why no one but FISH made those bags to last.

so i have a fish bag, and find the quality to be much crapier than metoleus/BD etc. -

anyone else find this? seems like people always love fish gear, but my bag seems whack comparred to my bro's?

any thoughts fish lovers?

I tend to buy what I think is the best product that suits my style of climbing so I have a A5 ledge, a Metolius Haul Bag, Fish Aiders, Fish Snake Charmer rope bag, Yates adjustable daisy's, etc...

The fish products that I do have are well made and do the job they are designed to do. They take a lot of abuse and hold up well over time. They have a practical look to them rather than a fashion statement and are priced at an affordable level.

If you're not happy with your Fish bag I'd just email Russ and let him know.

I think my portaledge bag is made out of duck tape and some other crap material under it that. Works well. If it starts to wear out add more tape.

You alway want to use catch lines for your ledge. What these are are lengths of 6 or 7mm perlon with a figure 8 on both ends that are long enough to tie into you main haul locked and hang below your haul bag. Catch lines are great for your ledge, your $hit tube, and if you have a haul bucket. The reasons this is the better way is that one you can get more on multiple catch lines instead of the one loop on the bottom of the bag. The second reason is now you don't need to get under your bag to get your ledge and other such things.

There is more info on catch lines here.

rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/fo…;search_string=catch%20lines;#104309

I hope this helped.

Caz

go get on moonlight:)
You might be gaggling it up but just let the free climbers pass and on you go. My first wall was in peak season on moonlight. We took 2 and half days to do it and enjoyed every minute. We allowed 3 partys to pass which slowed us up but you cannot beat it for you first burn out in the ledge and getting into the wall flow.
hauling the first two pitches is great training for horrible hauls ;)
Go get it!

If it is steep, look into flagging your ledge. I don't know about yours, but my ledge can take an hour to assemble from a hanging belay. You can save this time by clipping the assembled ledge above your haulbag. Simply clip the long edge of the ledge w/ beaners to the haul line above the bag and you are good to go. check out other threads and this photo: rockclimbing.com/photos/Mis…

I'm with GuanoBoy on the flagging of the ledge. Works like a charm on steep and overhanging hauls, but can be tricky when hauling over roofs (may take direct assistance in clearing the roof edge).

When flagging my Skylounge, I'll clove a couple ovalwires into the ledges corner-straps as close to the frame as possible. Doing so will prevent the ledge from attempting to collapse on itself mid-haul, while providing an easy method to attach to the haul line. (They remain here until the climb is topped out, or it's necessary to break down the ledge. They're also a handy point to clip misc. shit when you're gettin ready for dinner/bedtime.)

Simply clip one corner to the haul line, detach the PP from the anchor and clip it to either the ledge or the line, push the ledge up the rope till you can clip the bottom corner to the line. Never any worry about dropping this crucial (and expensive) piece of gear. When your load gets close to the new anchor, it's easy to reach down, pull the ledge up the line and transfer it to the new anchor one clip at a time. I usually just clip one corner (and the PP to back it up) in such a manner as to keep it hanging out of the way.

Having the ledge already set up makes it that much more convenient for your partner to suffer though that 4hr lead you're in the middle of.

Otherwise, go with the catchlines, clipped to a locker attached to your master locker below the swivel. Use different colors of accessory cord for different things, such that you can ID what you're pulling up BEFORE hasslin' with the shit to discover you've got the wrong item.

Really try not to haul in Zion. Hauling ledges and hauling in general really beat up the the trade routes - you can see prodigal son from space from the haul scar. If you need to haul on a short route, go to Yosemite and do the west face of the leaning tower or something like that. Much less rock impact.

Andrew Gram wrote:Really try not to haul in Zion. Hauling ledges and hauling in general really beat up the trade routes - you can see prodigal son from space from the haul scar. If you need to haul on a short route, go to Yosemite and do the west face of the leaning tower or something like that. Much less rock impact.

Wow, would have never suspected that hauling would have that much of an impact. Great advice, which I have not heard mention of anywhere before. I do 99% of my climbing here in Canada, and a good percentage of that is new-routing, so I'm just not used to such a volume of climbers concentrated in an area that it would have such ramifications.

With regard to original topic.. first off, my *guess* is that the grade of material used for ledge bags, is thinner/less durable then haul bags, in an effort to keep the weight down. That and the fact that with less weight, there'll be less friction/wear then there would be with a loaded haul bag.

I have only attempted to flag my ledge once, which was anything but a smooth operation. With the situation I was in, I found it easier to collapse the ledge somewhat, but not totally disassemble it, which gave me enough clearance from the rock that it hauled fine. On the lower angle slabs leading up to the climb, I took a long sling and made a vario-eight type chest harness which I clipped in the back right at the "X", and across the front to keep it in place. I tagged the ledge (in it's bag) off of the back biner while I jugged. This kept it away from the rock enough that it came up easily and with the bag relatively unscathed.

My biggest beef with "Ledges" in general, is the lack of durability, or way of protecting the bed material from where it rubs against the rocks as you move around. I've been working on a set of bumpers, but haven't perfected them to where they'll work when the Bomb Shelter Fly
is in place.

BTW, a big thanks to John for giving Pete a home! Now maybe we can have real (and active) Aid Forum!

Just trying to keep everything linked to everything else so later - when this forum gets big, as you-all know it's about to - you can still find stuff easily. You can click here to read about flagging your ledge.

If you're not flagging, use a Catch Line and dedicated locker for sure. If you want, you can clip the locker into the straps on the very bottom of your pig for a more streamlined profile [although I never bother with this]. At least this way, you can more easily unclip the ledge locker + Catch Line assembly from the bottom of the pig, without risking dropping anything. But it's still too much of a pain to reach under the pig for this wall rat.

Kevin's idea above about the bumpers on the inside of the ledge definitely has merit, although is not original to him - Conrad [W]Anker's Cliff Cabana [formerly The North Face] has a pair of rubber bumpers you put on the inside of the ledge to protect it from the wall, and no doubt this would help keep your ledge from sliding around and shifting so much, too. It's actually a really good idea, and it probably wouldn't hurt a bit to add some sort of padding to my ledge next spring.

I reviewed Conrad's ledge [and a couple others] for Gripped Magazine, but Conrad never sent any setup instructions with the ledge, and I missed the bit about the bumpers. I believe there was some little note that said, "look up the instructions on the website" or something, but I'm sorry, I didn't happen to have a computer with me when I was setting it up. It's a superb huge bomber ledge - expensive as hell - and probably worth every penny if you can afford it.

Its single design flaw is that there is not enough adjustability on the suspension straps [something like 14 or 16" if I recall correctly] which is insufficient for all but the most "perfect" of hangs - often difficult to achieve when you, your partner[s], your gear and your pig[s] are crowded onto a narrow belay station. Often you need to hang your ledge with the straps on one end fully shortened, and the straps on the other end fully lengthened, and you can't do this very well with the Cliff Cabana I reviewed.

After reading my review, Conrad wrote the magazine and called me a "Big Wall Parvenu", certainly my best insult of the year, and arguably ever!

Cheers,
Dr. Piton, BWP