Using aid ladders for jugging, hw do people safety these?

Mark Hudon wrote:

Simple, simple, simple.

Put a nice big auto locker on your belay loop and tie a knot into it every 15, 20, 30, 50 feet as per your comfort level.

And remind me again, how many accidents are there where both ascenders have "popped off" the rope?

I've never heard of both jumars popping simultaneously.  If it's a reasonably straight jug I usually don't back up at all--two jumars are more than bomber enough for me.  I'll backup on traversing cleans or if I'm feeling sketched by some unknown factor.  Otherwise it's a pain I don't need.

I feel the same way. I pretty much never worry about my ascenders popping off the rope unless I'm cleaning a sever traverse.
Here is my method.

My rescuscender works great as a backup for ascending. I don't use it though

Ben Zartman wrote:

I've never heard of both jumars popping simultaneously.  If it's a reasonably straight jug I usually don't back up at all--two jumars are more than bomber enough for me.  I'll backup on traversing cleans or if I'm feeling sketched by some unknown factor.  Otherwise it's a pain I don't need.

It’s all about Risk tolerance. I use my Jumar’s with a micro traction as a back up because that’s what I prefer. On a lower out I did have an ascender pop offf.  

McKinley Thompson wrote:

It’s all about Risk tolerance. I use my Jumar’s with a micro traction as a back up because that’s what I prefer. On a lower out I did have an ascender pop offf.  

That's the first instance I've heard of even one doing that.  Thanks for the data point.

Ben Zartman wrote:

That's the first instance I've heard of even one doing that.  Thanks for the data point.

http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/13198402803/Fall-on-Rock-Unroped-California-Yosemite-Valley

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/180905/The-Tangerine-Trip-Fatality

http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/13200505302/Fall-on-Rock-Failure-to-Backup-Ascenders-California-Yosemite-Valley-El-Capitan-Tangerine-Trip

Marc801 C wrote:

http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/13198402803/Fall-on-Rock-Unroped-California-Yosemite-Valley

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/180905/The-Tangerine-Trip-Fatality

http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/13200505302/Fall-on-eneRock-Failure-to-Backup-Ascenders-California-Yosemite-Valley-El-Capitan-Tangerine-Trip

I wouldnt Jumar any other way than with a Micro/nano traction device as a back up. Partiularly importsnt  when ascending and cleaning fixed ropes where the follower needs to switch the jumars to the next set of ropes. When you reattach the 2n jumar to the next fixed line you only would have 1 attachment point if  you don't have the Micro traxion.

Ben Zartman wrote:

That's the first instance I've heard of even one doing that.  Thanks for the data point.

I haven't had any pop off but I did have a failure of my well-used 90s era petzl (right handed) ascender cam spring. This happend during normal TR solo use last year; I just noticed the cam was acting funny and then I saw that the spring had broken and the cam was moving freely.

Like I said, it was well used. But it had no obvious damage and was an unexpected event. Made me glad I always use a back-up.

nbrown wrote:

I haven't had any pop off but I did have a failure of my well-used 90s era petzl (right handed) ascender cam spring. This happend during normal TR solo use last year; I just noticed the cam was acting funny and then I saw that the spring had broken and the cam was moving freely.

Like I said, it was well used. But it had no obvious damage and was an unexpected event. Made me glad I always use a back-up.

I've often wondered if the spring mechanism would ever fail.  I have a 30 yo Croll and set of Jumars still in use, and wonder how long they'll last.  I knew caving guys to use them on dirty ropes till the teeth wore off completely, and the springs still worked.  I tend to prefer spring-less designs like the Gibbs asceder-type (I have a generic one that works really well) where the weight of the body makes the cam engage.

Good to know about the spring failing. 

The BD Index ascenders have a deep groove for the rope and much tighter allowances between the groove and the cam.
I have (not in a climbing situation) pulled a fully locked Petzl ascender (2009 model) off a 10mil rope. I haven’t tried it with the BD ascenders but I doubt it can be done

Marc801 C wrote:

http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/13198402803/Fall-on-Rock-Unroped-California-Yosemite-Valley

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/180905/The-Tangerine-Trip-Fatality

http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/13200505302/Fall-on-Rock-Failure-to-Backup-Ascenders-California-Yosemite-Valley-El-Capitan-Tangerine-Trip

Another instance: http://www.supertopo.com/tr/Crisis-in-Yosemite-My-fall-of-a-lifetime/t11255n.html

I guess this is not "popping off" since in the end the jumars were still on the rope, but the result was similar.

Josiah Boning wrote:

Another instance: http://www.supertopo.com/tr/Crisis-in-Yosemite-My-fall-of-a-lifetime/t11255n.html

I guess this is not "popping off" since in the end the jumars were still on the rope, but the result was similar.

This would be user error, wouldn't it?