Anchor design with cord

I've seen some people using cord to build an anchor in a way that makes me a little concerned and I'm wondering what others think. They were using some 7mm static cord with a figure 8 on a bight in one end of the cord that is clipped to the piece furthest left then the cord was clipped into the middle piece and then a clove hitch on the right piece with the excess piled on the ground. They then made the standard "W" that I've always done with cordelette in a loop and a master point was created using a figure 8. It wasn't tied in a loop but they explained this allowed for quick and easy length adjustment by adjusting the clove. The concern I have is that there is only one leg of cord going to the left and right pieces and one end is secured with a clove hitch alone. Thoughts?

totally fine.

Solid anchor to me. 

Ditto.  Not sure what the concern is. 

Agreed, seems fine to me too.

The main thing I'd personally look for with pieces clipped with a clove is that you don't want that to be the end of the rope/cord (e.g. there should be something else further on that strand on either side), or you want to make sure there's plenty of tails. The clove is not a knot, it could conceivably work loose, and thus if it's close to the end of the cord, the end could conceivably pull true & undo the hitch. As with all knot/hitches, make sure they're tight & clean.

With the master point figure 8, each leg is independent and if one strand was cut, two legs would still be intact. Sounds good to me. 

This is a three-piece variant of what the Ouray Ice Park wants you to build: https://ourayicepark.com/techtalk

Franck Vee wrote:

Agreed, seems fine to me too.

...The clove is not a knot, it could conceivably work loose...

???

slim wrote:

???

The clove hitch is not a knot. It is a hitch.

https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/is-it-a-knot-hitch-or-bend

I’m actually thinking about doing this as opposed to bringing a tied cordelette. Are there any downsides? I’m thinking it is much more versatile. 

Mitch Steiner wrote:

I’m actually thinking about doing this as opposed to bringing a tied cordelette. Are there any downsides? I’m thinking it is much more versatile. 

The way your shelf works is different with this method, compared to the common "two strands going to each piece" method. On a two-piece anchor, you won't really have a shelf, as we traditionally understand the shelf. Three pieces, you'll be able to clip the shelf on the piece with two strands, but it won't be redundant.

Obviously the easy workaround is "use the master point," but you want to know that before you go up, and remember it when you're building the anchor and clipping in.

Dylan Pike wrote:

The clove hitch is not a knot. It is a hitch.

https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/is-it-a-knot-hitch-or-bend

i was questioning the work loose part.

slim wrote:

i was questioning the work loose part.

Ah. I suppose that is possible if the anchor is moving around, but is pretty darn unlikely if you are weighting the hitch and it is properly dressed.

Anchors can also be built with an “open cordelette” and clove hitches at either ends connected to the protection. See details/photos/video here:
https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/the-open-cordelette 

Totally fine with one caveat, the cord should be at least 7mm.  I personally haven’t used 7mm cord in a long time and only carry 6mm so generally wouldn’t construct an anchor with a single leg of cord unless there weren’t other options.

Is this a troll?

slim wrote:

i was questioning the work loose part.

I took care to mention conceivably. Obviously if one is on a hanging belay, not really a concern. However on ledge, or if TRing, some level of back & forth can loosen up the clove. Of course then it would still have to see the open end of the rope pass through. I see this the way I see leaving tails on knots - in most cases it won't matter, the knot won't roll/pass through regardless if the tail is 1 or 12 inches. But it costs nothing to take the precaution against the freak event.

All that to say that I'd be carefull to use a clove on the outermost pieces of an anchor if I'm working with the open end of a rope/cord.

I do something like this for most of my anchors. 6mm Powercord. Figure 8 on a bight on the end, down to master point, up to a clove on the middle piece, bridge over (ends up being slack in the system) to the 3rd piece with another figure 8 on a bight, down to the master point and then whatever tail is left is out of the system. 

You're gonna die!

The clove hitch is probably the part that is messing with your mind the most.

What if one piece pulls, any piece?  It's an overhand fig-8 at the master point.  So, two pieces will still be there with minimal shock/shift to the system; hopefully.

If the clove hitch somehow does something bizarre, it's no different than than losing a piece of gear.  And as long as it's not something really sketchy like only a 2" loose tail on the clove hitch, look, that clove hitch isn't going to just pay out rope without locking; you can solo lead on a clove hitch, if you had to; really, really had to.

I would have no problem with that anchor.

I also have no problem with someone questioning it.  A questioning attitude is always good thing.

Jason EL wrote:

The clove hitch is probably the part that is messing with your mind the most.

What if one piece pulls, any piece?  It's an overhand fig-8 at the master point.  So, two pieces will still be there with minimal shock/shift to the system; hopefully.

If the clove hitch somehow does something bizarre, it's no different than than losing a piece of gear.  And as long as it's not something really sketchy like only a 2" loose tail on the clove hitch, look, that clove hitch isn't going to just pay out rope without locking; you can solo lead on a clove hitch, if you had to; really, really had to.

I would have no problem with that anchor.

I also have no problem with someone questioning it.  A questioning attitude is always good thing.

A clove hitch can start coming undone, i've seen it happen on a top rope anchor. However, once the slack enters the system, it is no longer weight bearing and no longer carries on undoing.

Personally, I would stick an overhand on the last clove hitch if it was going to be used as a top rope anchor (otherwise you can lose equalisation if the clove loosens) but for an anchor, I would just ensure I have a foot or so of slack