NC climbing areas are closed.

Stay home! Most of the climbing areas in NC are CLOSED.  

The place we can't talk about is always open

I'll be right there! Thanks for the invite.

SinRopa wrote: Pilot Mountain is still open on weekdays...for now.

Pilot is also now closed.

https://carolinaclimbers.org/covid-19

Is it ok to boulder alone? It’s a little sad, but is it ok?

Jared Chrysostom wrote: Is it ok to boulder alone? It’s a little sad, but is it ok?

Nope...you could fall and twist an ankle.  SAR would be put at risk to have to come and get you.  Then you would overly strain the healthcare system.  

Joshua McDaniel wrote:

Nope...you could fall and twist an ankle.  SAR would be put at risk to have to come and get you.  Then you would overly strain the healthcare system.  

There goes my Friday morning...

The bald is closed too?

Edit: not planning on going. It’s out of my true local region 

I think the point of the SAR / EMS analysis is the same reason I'm on my couch instead of climbing: I am young(ish) and in good shape with no risk factors (that I know of). I don't really need to worry about myself too much, but it would suck if I got granny sick. So the point here is not so much that you couldn't get treated or that you're putting SAR at risk per se, but if you need a bed and hospital resources to fix your ankle during a pandemic, you're taking the bed and hospital resources that someone's sick granny needs.

Tammy Gueterman wrote:

I don't buy this reasoning. The availability of SAR, EMS, and hospital care on a good day should never cross your mind in a risk-benefit analysis for any climbing endeavor. 

"...on a good day...". These present days aren't so good though.  A risk benefit analysis on any day should include all variables.  The availability of SAR and access to medical attention in a given area would certainly be part of my risk assessment planning a climbing venture.  It wouldn't be a big factor in deciding  the risk I am willing to take in a given moment climbing...but it is certainly more of a factor to consider when planning in the present environment.  

But I think you also completely missed the intent of my comment.  I mean..."a twisted ankle" bouldering being a SAR crisis and leading to you taking up the last hospital ventilator wouldn't be a logical risk assessment for the planned activity.

Tammy Gueterman wrote:

I don't buy this reasoning. The availability of SAR, EMS, and hospital care on a good day should never cross your mind in a risk-benefit analysis for any climbing endeavor. If your climbing decisions incorporated SAR as a safety net, then by all means cancel that decision and don't make it ever again. If what you are doing that is so risky that you are thinking about the possibility of needing rescue, why are you doing it at all? Did you really have criteria for deciding today is a good enough day to ask someone to risk their life to save you from your recreational activity? Why are you climbing ever?
As far as relying on outside help for the unexpected, any climbing decision that is irresponsible today, was also irresponsible 4 months ago. If you think contacts and transmission cannot be adequately mitigated, then climbing today is no different than before.

Linville is empty AF year round. Don't mess up though.

Your reasoning about risk seems off to me.  It seems like you're arguing that any given activity is either safe or unsafe, with no in-between.  I would argue that driving 30 miles to the mountains, hiking a mile up a trail to the crag, climbing a few pitches, and maybe taking a few lead falls would *increase my risk* of breaking an ankle, compared to, say, sitting on my couch and watching movies all day. By increasing this risk, I would increase the likelihood of requiring health care resources.  Others have argued that doing so will, in turn, increase the risk that doctors are forced to choose who receives care and who does not in a situation of constrained health care resources.  Some have even argued that this strain could increase the systemic risk of societal collapse.

Tammy Gueterman wrote:

 If you think contacts and transmission cannot be adequately mitigated, then climbing today is no different than before.

Linville is empty AF year round. Don't mess up though.

Wrong.  Just because Linville is "empty AF"...doesn't mean the hospital you would get taken is "empty AF."

Let me be clear though.  I don't think that means one can't choose to go out and climb.  But if one chooses to climb, they must assess all the risks associated with these COVID19 times we are in and will be in.

I'd still consider multipitching in the gorge if I could...but bouldering alone...mmm...twisted ankle seems too risky to me.

Can you guys let me know when you decide if I can go bouldering today?

Jared Chrysostom wrote: Can you guys let me know when you decide if I can go bouldering today?

Haha. Seriously, I'm just here to point out that most twisted ankles aren't serious enough to require SAR or hospital care, and that you definitely won't be put on a ventilator for lower leg injuries.

Tammy Gueterman wrote:

I don't buy this reasoning. The availability of SAR, EMS, and hospital care on a good day should never cross your mind in a risk-benefit analysis for any climbing endeavor. If your climbing decisions incorporated SAR as a safety net, then by all means cancel that decision and don't make it ever again. If what you are doing that is so risky that you are thinking about the possibility of needing rescue, why are you doing it at all? Did you really have criteria for deciding today is a good enough day to ask someone to risk their life to save you from your recreational activity? Why are you climbing ever?
As far as relying on outside help for the unexpected, any climbing decision that is irresponsible today, was also irresponsible 4 months ago. If you think contacts and transmission cannot be adequately mitigated, then climbing today is no different than before.

Linville is empty AF year round. Don't mess up though.

Though you have it exactly backwards.

It's not "hey I'm going climbing, anyways that SARS thingy is going to solve everything if I fuck". It's not that you RELY on availability of rescue.

But if you DO fuck you, what.... if you partners is in need of rescue, and there is technically a SARS team available in the area, what do you do? Would you not call help & just let your partner die? If the answer to that is "no, I wouldn't just let my partner die holding his hand uselessly" then... then you end up in the situation where you've just monopolized a dozen specialist, who will have to treat you as if you have covid because they can't know for sure. If you DO have it, then you may just have infected a dozen healthcare workers and maybe some in the ER. Thanks for nothing...

I went bouldering with my quarantine buddy, nothing bad happened. 

Jared Chrysostom wrote: I went bouldering with my quarantine buddy, nothing bad happened. 

But we won't really know for 14 days...

NYer former NCer here to add some perspective:  We didn't have any cases here until March 1.  We have the most in the country and more cases than most other countries.  The hardest areas are the smaller towns, many of which had visitors from downstate, who unbeknownst to them carried the virus up there and left it in communities with far fewer resources and generally older population.  We didn't shelter in place early enough and when we did everyone still went to the park.  Now the hospital in my neighborhood had to get a cooler trailer outside it because 13 people died in one night.  And it's not just old people.  A teacher and a principal recently died, one was 36 and the other was 30.  No underlying conditions.  Just wait a couple months and climb whatever you want.  

Tammy Gueterman wrote:

If you're going to change your behavior now, then you are accepting the converse: On a good day, you are willing to ask someone else to risk their life to rescue you and consume medical resources for your recreation. How much thought have you given that on a normal day? Is that fair? Fair enough I would say. As long as your cosmic moral balance remains in the green, we are all entitled to some selfishness. This rescue consideration is, practically, so minimal that it makes no difference in my mind now that there's a pandemic. There are many other reason not to travel or climb if transmission and impact on local communities can't be mitigated, but the idea that you'll create a rescue scenario is negligible. If there is a climbing plan where the potential for burdening SAR and the hospital makes it unethical today, then it was also unethical 5 months ago as well.

As someone who is tasked with the "rescuing" I couldn't agree more with this statement. Thank you Tammy! 

covid19.healthdata.org/proj…

As if you needed any more proof that going climbing now is a bad idea:

https://www.dailyyonder.com/rural-counties-with-recreation-economies-show-higher-infection-rates/2020/03/25/?