Shoe rubber technology: why performance is better in colder conditions?

Hello everyone,,
I was wondering, why does shoe rubber seem to work better in colder temperatures? I am also a fan of Motorsport racing and it seems that tire heat is a very critical part in maintaining traction to the point that some rubber compounds must be pre heated before someone can even race on them. This seems to be the opposite with climbing rubbers, why is that? For example, some summer race tires I’ve used are so sticky they pick up pebbles on the road. It seems like taking a page from racing rubbers might be beneficial for climbing. For what it’s worth I heard a scarpa rep say that there just isn’t the funding for the kind of R&D that a race team for F1 would have but it seems like the tech would be able to piggyback in some way. Would love to hear some more critical discussion on shoe rubber compounds and idea performance temperatures. https://100001.onl/ https://1921681254.mx/ https://acc.onl/hotmail 
Edit: on a side note, has there ever been a climbing shoe deemed too sticky? I’ve heard tale of people using resins or honey to create artificial friction on their hands but I’m sure that trend died out in the 70s. Correct me if I’m wrong though!!!

One explanation is offered here: https://www.climbing.com/skills/learn-this-friction-science/

In short: "Climbing shoe manufacturers design their rubber to work best in a specific temperature range—approximately 32° to 41°F. (Of course, all rubber compounds are different, but this is an average according to shoe manufacturers.) Below this range, the rubber is harder and won’t mold well to the shape of the rock. Above it, the rubber will be too soft and will deform easily, causing it to slip. The reason climbing shoes work best in the cold is because they are designed to. But why such a low temperature range? At temps above that range, most people’s hands will begin to sweat (even ever so slightly), which reduces gripping ability. So shoe rubber is designed to function best at the same time that we have optimal hand grip. The 32° to 41°F range is too cold for hands to sweat, but it’s not so cold that you can’t warm your mitts up relatively easily."

Shoe companies would make a lot of money if they sold shoes with several types of rubber designed to have different optimal temperature ranges. Just think, for every pair I now own I could own three pairs to work in three different temperature ranges!

This made me curious and I cant find any actual data sheet for material testing on any of the popular rubber compounds. Mostly just empty phrasing from manufacturers. Its too bad

No rubber data..This is why the Challenger blew up by the way.

Humanjo Gomes wrote: Hello everyone,,
I was wondering, why does shoe rubber seem to work better in colder temperatures? I am also a fan of Motorsport racing and it seems that tire heat is a very critical part in maintaining traction to the point that some rubber compounds must be pre heated before someone can even race on them. This seems to be the opposite with climbing rubbers, why is that? For example, some summer race tires I’ve used are so sticky they pick up pebbles on the road. It seems like taking a page from racing rubbers might be beneficial for climbing. For what it’s worth I heard a scarpa rep say that there just isn’t the funding for the kind of R&D that a race team for F1 would have but it seems like the tech would be able to piggyback in some way. Would love to hear some more critical discussion on shoe rubber compounds and idea performance temperatures.
Edit: on a side note, has there ever been a climbing shoe deemed too sticky? I’ve heard tale of people using resins or honey to create artificial friction on their hands but I’m sure that trend died out in the 70s. Correct me if I’m wrong though!!!

Michelin use some of their motoGP research for their rock shoe soles, they say 0-25°C is their optimum range.

Yuri Rodea wrote: This made me curious and I cant find any actual data sheet for material testing on any of the popular rubber compounds. Mostly just empty phrasing from manufacturers. Its too bad

my guess is because they are making a commercial good, and no one wants to spend the $ for expensive ASTM testing that won't really make a difference in how many shoes they sell.  

Make no mistake, elastomer performance is well understood and there is plenty of data out there for other parts made of rubber...and their respective performance at temperatures (think o-rings, seals, tires, accumulator bladders etc..)

Jim Titt wrote:

Michelin use some of their motoGP research for their rock shoe soles, they say 0-25°C is their optimum range.

So anything outside that ra... wait a second.

I am no expert on any of this funny business, but personally i think something changes with the rock as well in colder temps. I need less chalk and my fingers stick better in colder temps....

Even if i am not sweating at all the rock just feels damn greasy when its hot.....

More friction in colder temps. Also, cold air is dry air.

curt86iroc wrote:

my guess is because they are making a commercial good, and no one wants to spend the $ for expensive ASTM testing that won't really make a difference in how many shoes they sell.  

Make no mistake, elastomer performance is well understood and there is plenty of data out there for other parts made of rubber...and their respective performance at temperatures (think o-rings, seals, tires, accumulator bladders etc..)

And rock shoes are generally crudely made from cut sheet, moulded soles can be multi- compound. My dirt bike tyres are dual compound like many motorcycle (and car tyres) and for MTBs there are triple compound ones.

I would love a shoe with better performance at higher temperature.  Say 80 degrees or so.  Very little of the climbing season is between 32-41 in the desert SW.  Most of the year the low daily temperature is well aboce 41.  We often climb in the 90s.

I suspect the temperature range for shoes is more a factor of ease of availability and cost rather than design. I don't think very many people would pick freezing as the perfect temperature to go climbing. 

Stealth rubber was developed by a tire engineer.
Climbing shoe rubber has been tested at all temps. and in all conditions.
You are using the best rubber money can buy, stop bitching and go climbing.

Mark Frumkin wrote: Stealth rubber was developed by a tire engineer.
Climbing shoe rubber has been tested at all temps. and in all conditions.
You are using the best rubber money can buy, stop bitching and go climbing.

Hey man I just dont want to blindly trust Big Rubber corp

Gumby the White wrote: I am no expert on any of this funny business, but personally i think something changes with the rock as well in colder temps. I need less chalk and my fingers stick better in colder temps....

Even if i am not sweating at all the rock just feels damn greasy when its hot.....

I think it's called "humidity".

They should make a climbing shoe rubber that would work well at JTree and Red Rock during the summer.
I'm a DESERT RAT and I love the heat

Cosmiccragsman AKA Dwain wrote: They should make a climbing shoe rubber that would work well at JTree and Red Rock during the summer.
I'm a DESERT RAT and I love the heat

Try 5.10 Onyx.

I've found that when it's too cold the rubber seems to freeze and get slick feeling. I have to warm my shoes up to make the rubber soft and regain friction.