Best snag-free very light trad carabiner

What is the best very light biner for trad, i.e. a UL biner that DOES NOT CATCH OR SNAG on runners or anything else?

(EDIT: somewhere toward the end of P. 2 I added a "Summarizing the summary of the summary" which people may find useful.)

Look up the reviews and the Camp Photon Wire, 30g, is supposed to handle by far the best of any of the UL biners, even with gloves on.  There is a thread on that here, but it's like 5 years old. So, let me ask for a different take and more modern (post-discontinuation of the BD oz) discussion:

On the Photon Wire discussion, not one person commented on THE issue for me - does the nose snag on runners? I'm a trad climber, and all too often I have been in a sketchy stance trying to get a placement, when I clip the sling...oops but the nose catches.  Well, I'll just try aga... another snag. OK, I'll just pull this out and... arghghghg the biner pulled the sling out of position and my feet are about to blow out and arghghghghggh... you get the picture. At one point I started to buy the lovely petzl "keyway" design biners, but those are HEAVY - currently on the petzl site at 39 g. The Petzl Ange L is a full-size biner that is 34 g - not bad - but came in waaaay behind in the reviews in outdoorgearlabs.com review.  Both it and the Wild country Helium 2 are nearly 2X the price of the Camp Photon Wire as well.

I have a pair of old, at the time very very fancy, ultra-light dmm biners that are the king of heinous snagging.  Pictures of the photon wire nose, which looks like a fish hook, also looks exactly like the old DMMs, and that terrifies me.

In the Photon wire discussion several people pointed out that they had poor quality control, holes looked in the wrong places, some gates were so soft they were returned or refused, and someone said they were made in china - off my list for human rights reasons.

So are you a trad climber and if so, how would you rate the "snagosity" of the Camp Photon Wire?  It would be a service to the community here to compare "snagaceousness" to the best-known biners.  E.g.: "yes I'm a strictly  trad climber, and it snags never/rarely/noticeable amount/frequently out of hundreds of uses".  

Elseways, what is your trad favorite lightweight biner and why?

Thanks,

-TPC

I never have trouble with my Photons.

I also like the Mammut Wall Light carabiners. They're about the same weight and size as the CAMP Nanos but handle better, IMO. 

This was discussed in a recent thread but I couldn't find it. EDIT linked

Photons have the problems you mentioned and I've looked down to see them nose snagged before.  + i've had to retire a bunch from the springs wearing out on the gate.

Dyons all the way. Light, don't snag, and can be found for reasonably cheap if you look around and use a deal.

Alpine draw biner discussion thread

Wild Country Helium: https://www.wildcountry.com/en-us/helium-40-hel2 
Light and snag free. Been using them on my cams and alpine draws for years and really like them. 

Sounds like you’re looking for the Wildcountry Helium Biner, or maybe the DMM Alpha Trad Biner. Both are great but the Helium gets my pick of Cost/handling 

DMM Chimera: https://dmmclimbing.com/Products/Carabiners/Chimera

30g

+1 for Dyons. They are the best snag free biner I have tried, and the nose is tiny unlike DMM Alpha, Petzl Ange, or WC Helium.

Big fan of dmm alpha trad
not cheap
Not super light
Pretty colors
Lots of fun 

This has been discussed extensively and it always seems that most people prefer either the Wild Country Helium or CAMP Dyon.  I use dyon's for alpine draws and love them, but the helium is great too, I'm sure you wouldn't be disappointed with either.

Although the dyon is basically just a snag-free photon, the gate feel is completely different and I much prefer it to the photon. It also seems to me that the quality is overall higher on the dyon's than the few photon's I have. Regarding CAMP quality control, I've been using dyons since they came out and have had no issues with any of them, they all still feel great.  For whatever reason my photon's seem to be aging less gracefully, despite having either similar or less mileage on them than my dyons.

Snag free biners are going to be more expensive, no way around it. Photons will not do the trick. Go for the dyons.

Thanks everyone for great ideas and suggestions. I'll update this if anything new comes along, but...

Along with the complaints about the build quality of Camp biners, they are made in China (see last paragraph), according to sierra.com.

Biner           mass           best price I found      comment
He II              33g           $ 10.88                         Great reviews, many fans, big nose, not that light , similar wild country items are made in UK on sierra.com, could not find this one.
Camp Dyon 33 g            $10.46                        many fans, not in best-known reviews,  made in china?

So, nothing new to add really, because some people recommended biners with standard noses and wires, which I reject out of hand:

DMM Alpha Trad 35 g has standard wire hook nose.
DMM Chimera 30g standard wire hook nose
Mammut wall light - 23 g, has standard wire hook nose.

Now, I grant you - subtleties of designs that you can't really see from pictures could do a lot.  So,
***if*** someone is really willing to go out on a limb and say
* I AM A TRAD CLIMBER
* I have used these on dozens trad routes (anything with more than one bolt disqualified)
* I'll stake my reputation that they never or almost never snag
.... then I'll promote that biner to the list and note the highly selective response.  However, in the posts above, I'm just not seeing that.

I like to avoid products made in China for human rights reasons - don't like to support countries with aggregious human rights abuses (e.g. mass detention of Uigurs) and censorship (i.e. the great firewall), and those two criticisms are overwhelming, clear and objective.  

I would not, personally, bet my life on anything made in China, either, but that's just a grossly prejudiced opinon - no defending that. (I've seen behaviors in US manufacturing facilities that would not inspire confidence, that that's just from the management...)

-TPC

thepirate1 wrote: Is it true that the Dyons are made in China?

Thanks everyone for great ideas and suggestions. I'll update this if anything new comes along, but...

Biner           mass           best price I found      comment
He II              33g           $ 10.88                         Great reviews, many fans, big nose, not that light
Camp Dyon 33 g            $10.46                        many fans, not in best-known reviews, maybe made in china?

DMM Alpha Trad 35 g has standard wire hook nose.
DMM Chimera 30g standard wire hook nose

Dyon is made in china. Almost all of camps line is. 

Nothing wrong with them. However for the money, id spend the money on DMM. The alpha Trad and light are snag free. The chimera is also snag free
The Petzl Ange is snag free and if you like the single wire they are great.

I sport dork but have climbed alot of trad. If i was buying more biners I would get DMM alpha or chimera biners. 

So you want people to jump through hoops for you, proving their worth to you, because you can't manage to get a carabiner through a sling? And you can't even get the facts straight on the advice already given to you? 

Pirate, agree with you on the china aspect and I should really put my money where my mouth is... but I've yet to find a better biner than the Dyon and, at $7.50 each, that adds up when we're talking a few dozen of them. Very easy to score them on sale for anywhere from 7-8 bucks, and I don't even like heliums as much, let alone for 10 bucks (don't seem to find them at as good of sale prices as dyons)

Perhaps it is a small benefit, but the wiregates that are snag-free and enclose the gate in a hood have the added benefit of reducing the chance of the gate opening when scraped against the rock.  It seems to me that the Dyon is actually more likely to have this happen than many other biners.

With the Alpha Light and OZ apparently being discontinued, that leaves the Chimera and Helium as two excellent choices (but unfortunately pricey).  I like the lighter Chimera for racking cams, and the larger Helium for general purpose use.

I've also used the Ange S, which has the smoothest clipping nose, but do not particularly like pinching the single wire when holding the spine.

Smaller options are the WC Helium and DMM Chimera, both have a nose that protects the wire gate.
Larger option with great clip ability with gloves is the DMM Alpha Trad.

DMM Alpha Light for only $8 - click here!
shameless plug

I like WC heliums for my draws. Wish they weighed 28g, but their handling makes up for the extra weight. Reducing fumbling while pumped is more likely to help me than shaving 100g off my rack.

Also, if you buy $100+ from leftlanesports, and use their $30 off $100 code CYBER, you can get a decent price on Dyon Rack Packs (don't forget 8% from AJ too)

thepirate1 wrote:
***if*** someone is really willing to go out on a limb and say
* I AM A TRAD CLIMBER
* I have used these on dozens trad routes (anything with more than one bolt disqualified)

So, there goes the Nose. Or anything on El Cap, really. But false "trad" purity is important, I'm sure. 

thepirate1 wrote: The Petzl Ange L is a full-size biner that is 34 g - not bad - but came in waaaay behind in the reviews in outdoorgearlabs.com review.  

and? you're striking it off just based on that review?

I've used both the Ange L and S since they came out in all kinds of situations (trad, alpine, winter) and I've loved them.
yes they're expensive but you get what you pay for ...

Summarizing the summary of the summary

Thanks again people for all your varied contributions.  I have really learned a LOT - much more than from manufacturer's info. Thanks to folks above for setting me straight on some points.

My summary is that the four biners below are excellent, fairly lightweight, each has their own place I suppose.  I did not find many reviews of the Chimera, but people go nuts over them and do not complain they are hard to clip... but they have a substantially smaller gate opening, possibly the widest nose here, but they are 10% lighter, .

Biner                | weight | gate Wd | lowprice | Comments   (reference for made in)
Helium II           33g        27mm      $10.88     Great reviews, many fans, big nose hard to clip some bolts, chains, not that light, comments about being easy to handle in gloves; made in Taiwan (mec.ca)
Camp Dyon      33 g       26 mm      $10.46    many fans, not loved for quality, not in best-known reviews, made in china (sierra.com)
DMM Chimera 30g        21 mm      $11.21    snag-free, but nose is possibly even wider than HeII, made in Whales (mfgr video etc.)
Petzl Ange L    34 g       26 mm      $9.32       many people hate the single wire, supposedly there is a right way to clip which fixes this; one review claimed nose ices up; made in france (mtntools.com)

gate Wd = gate width
lowprice = lowest price via google search
Comments and Made in....people say all kindsa stuff about where something is manufactured, so I tried to give a reference (in parenthesis).

Could we say the ultimate combo would be to have HeII on the rope side, Chimera on the cam?  

Others Noted
----------------------
DMM Alpha Trad 35 g 25 mm opening looks like standard wire hook nose but has the same description as Chimera nose, "clean nose".
opening standard wire hook nose.  It's a bit heavier than the rest.
Mammut wall light - 23 g, has standard wire hook nose.

About Snagging
--------------------------
Most carabiners these days have a really nice, really smooth finish, and rounded edges.  Snagging occurs primarily when the nose hook encounters the thin edge of your runner. So, with a hood, the hook is still there to hook things, but since you can't get the thin edge of the runner into the crook of the hook, you could probably never snag it. Modern biners save weight using wire to remove the gate and save weight, voila, all of the ones above are hooded wired, except for Ange, which is a single wire and different.

Other Comments:
-------------------------------
I disqualified any tiny or mini-biners - if we're paying double to avoid a snag, what would be the point of including a biner so small you complained it was hard to clip ropes?

DMM Marketing take note:  I had to work sooooo hard, and have soooo many people jump on me before I found a picture that showed that the Chimera has a "hooded" design, and is probably snag-free. Good pictures are important, folks!

There is a review that shows all these biners together, and the chimera looks like it has the largest nose... but it's unclear whether it's compared to a Helium I or II. https://blacksheepadventuresports.com/2017/09/13/comparison-review-lightweight-snag-free-carabiners/

COMPARISON: Petzl spirit I think was one of the first non-snaging biners, solid gate and keyway - 39g $8.54, not so fancy but works great.  They are my favorite biner in my current collection before I got all these comments and will go shopping (among a collection of truly awesomely  old, heavy (one is 65 g!!!!), random and sometimes nasty biners).

thepirate1 wrote: Summarizing the summary of the summary

Thanks again people for all your varied contributions.  I have really learned a LOT - much more than from manufacturer's info. Thanks to folks above for setting me straight on some points.

My summary is that the four biners below are excellent, fairly lightweight, each has their own place I suppose.  I did not find many reviews of the Chimera, but people go nuts over them and do not complain they are hard to clip... but they have a substantially smaller gate opening, possibly the widest nose here, but they are 10% lighter, .

Biner                | weight | gate Wd | lowprice | Comments   (reference for made in)
Helium II           33g        27mm      $10.88     Great reviews, many fans, big nose hard to clip some bolts, chains, not that light, comments about being easy to handle in gloves; made in Taiwan (mec.ca)
Camp Dyon      33 g       26 mm      $10.46    many fans, not loved for quality, not in best-known reviews, made in china (sierra.com)
DMM Chimera 30g        21 mm      $11.21    snag-free, but nose is possibly even wider than HeII, made in Whales (mfgr video etc.)
Petzl Ange L    34 g       26 mm      $9.32       many people hate the single wire, supposedly there is a right way to clip which fixes this; one review claimed nose ices up; made in france (mtntools.com)

gate Wd = gate width
lowprice = lowest price via google search
Comments and Made in....people say all kindsa stuff about where something is manufactured, so I tried to give a reference (in parenthesis).

Could we say the ultimate combo would be to have HeII on the rope side, Chimera on the cam?  

Others Noted
----------------------
DMM Alpha Trad 35 g 25 mm opening looks like standard wire hook nose but has the same description as Chimera nose, "clean nose".
opening standard wire hook nose.  It's a bit heavier than the rest.
Mammut wall light - 23 g, has standard wire hook nose.

About Snagging
--------------------------
Most carabiners these days have a really nice, really smooth finish, and rounded edges.  Snagging occurs primarily when the nose hook encounters the thin edge of your runner. So, with a hood, the hook is still there to hook things, but since you can't get the thin edge of the runner into the crook of the hook, you could probably never snag it. Modern biners save weight using wire to remove the gate and save weight, voila, all of the ones above are hooded wired, except for Ange, which is a single wire and different.

Other Comments:
-------------------------------
I disqualified any tiny or mini-biners - if we're paying double to avoid a snag, what would be the point of including a biner so small you complained it was hard to clip ropes?

DMM Marketing take note:  I had to work sooooo hard, and have soooo many people jump on me before I found a picture that showed that the Chimera has a "hooded" design, and is probably snag-free. Good pictures are important, folks!

There is a review that shows all these biners together, and the chimera looks like it has the largest nose... but it's unclear whether it's compared to a Helium I or II. https://blacksheepadventuresports.com/2017/09/13/comparison-review-lightweight-snag-free-carabiners/

COMPARISON: Petzl spirit I think was one of the first non-snaging biners, solid gate and keyway - 39g $8.54, not so fancy but works great.  They are my favorite biner in my current collection before I got all these comments and will go shopping (among a collection of truly awesomely  old, heavy (one is 65 g!!!!), random and sometimes nasty biners).

You’re a boss. Thanks for putting the time into this summary of a summary.