Belay <insert demeaning word describing management> says - "No ATC for you!"
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https://m.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Influence-of-the-belay-device?ActivityName=Rock-climbing
https://m.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Forces-at-work-in-a-real-fall?ActivityName=Rock-climbing Be careful when trad climbing with thin pro with a gri |
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wolfsburgweekender wrote: i can't help but feel like all the people arguing for an ATC haven't used anything else. id have to imagine most of the people who have used and ABD (grigri especially in my opinion) have made the switch. who wouldn't want a faster, smoother, safer device ?? I'm not arguing for or against anything...what I'm not saying is that the grigri is the best fucking belay device for every application. Which is what some of you are advocating. What the grigri is excellent for is sport climbing with a hangdog bro. Nothing better.What it sucks for is the mountains, where you might run into some wet icy ropes. Grigri's stop working with icy ropes, ain't that a hoot. So in that sense, the grigri is a death tool and will get us all killed :-) See how that sounds? I ask new partners what tool they are most comfortable with, and that's what I expect them to use. I am good with Grigri, ATC style and a Munter. If my partner want me to use something else I am unfamiliar with, like a Revo, I would decline. EDIT: Grigri's will actually freeze in the non active mode if you get them wet and let it freeze. Scary. |
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To remind snowflakes again - you may choose whatever you want to belay/be belayed with, but if you go to the two gyms mentioned in the 1st post, your choices will be limited. It has been two years since a handful of gyms on the tropical island country of Singapore made the controversial decision to ban the use of tubular belay devices (ATCs and similar pieces). |
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wolfsburgweekender wrote: i can't help but feel like all the people arguing for an ATC haven't used anything else. id have to imagine most of the people who have used and ABD (grigri especially in my opinion) have made the switch. who wouldn't want a faster, smoother, safer device ?? I dunno how much your feelings and imagination have to do with my reality. And personally, I'm not arguing-- folks can do what they want. I'm more curious about why other folks do what they do, and thank you for explaining your systems and thought process. But here, specifically, your feelings are leading you astray... that is, you're just wrong that all people who prefer atcs have never used anything else. If my partner has a gri and wants me to use it, I do, and that happens about 1-2 times a month.I own an eddy, but the only space where I've really liked using it was either when my buddy is climbing something too-hard bolt-to-bolt or for lead/toprrope rope solo. But it's way clunkier than my ATC, and it's clunkier than the gri, so I don't think it's quite the same thing. But I will use my ATC for most tasks if given a choice |
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Nathaniel Ward wrote: My brother ran a gym from around ‘98-‘02 that had fixed Grigris on every rope. It was a good idea then, and still is. Gym climbing isn’t about reproducing outdoor climbing. When climbing outdoors you’re in a dynamic environment and you need to use a range of knowledge and skill to manage that. A gym is exactly the opposite in that nearly every variable apart from belayer attention can be managed. So why not make the environment as safe, predictable and routinized as possible? (*From a crusty trad guy who learned to climb in 1989 on a hip belay. The right tool for job is the one to use. ) How Dare you bring the conversation back to the actual topic talking about gym belay policies rather than endless, self-indulgent wankery about how safe people are with their ATCs while climbing outdoors. |
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Robert Hernandez wrote: I think you mean the FORMER, right? |
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Robert Hernandez wrote: I believe you meant former. Using two devices is hardly case closed when you consider the belay protocol described as a “controlled fall”. |
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Colonel Mustard wrote: I think the 2nd belayer is a tail, not a device. Ie. someone holding the brake strand loosely in case the first belayer loses his/her grip. |
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Our only gym in northern delaware specifically doesnt teach using these types of devices because it breeds bad habits in people who already have no clue whats going on. This Will no doubt cause more accidents outside that hopefully won't involve bystanders. Nice thinly veiled gear sales push. |
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All i know is when someone sprays their whole life experience and insists on using a tuber they should go solo something or climb with like minded folk. The whole discussion seems like a no brainer to me. Am I nuts? |
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Dave McMahon wrote: Our only gym in northern delaware specifically doesnt teach using these types of devices because it breeds bad habits in people who already have no clue whats going on. This Will no doubt cause more accidents outside that hopefully won't involve bystanders. Nice thinly veiled gear sales push. Delaware? Oh shit! |
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M Mobes wrote: All i know is when someone sprays their whole life experience and insists on using a tuber they should go solo something or climb with like minded folk. The whole discussion seems like a no brainer to me. Am I nuts? Exactly. Especially when you look at the belay and general safety habits of some of the most impressive climbing resumes. |
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Dave McMahon wrote: Our only gym in northern delaware specifically doesnt teach using these types of devices because it breeds bad habits in people who already have no clue whats going on. This Will no doubt cause more accidents outside that hopefully won't involve bystanders. Nice thinly veiled gear sales push. Lol, it that what they told you?! It only breeds bad habits if you teach it wrong. |
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Bruce Hildenbrand wrote: Just because you feel you need an ABD doesn't mean everyone else needs one, too! Geez, can't we all just get along and use the belay device with we individually feel most comfortable? Then came the churches, then came the schools |
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M Mobes wrote: All i know is when someone sprays their whole life experience and insists on using a tuber they should go solo something or climb with like minded folk. The whole discussion seems like a no brainer to me. Am I nuts?
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Buck Rio wrote: I am good with Grigri, ATC style and a Munter. Finally, someone brings up the Munter, the original, and still the lightest, soft catch belay device. |
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kgray wrote: And the best "device" in the Alpine. |
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Kees van der Heiden wrote: Although, I have never seen a gym anywhere that will allow the Munter. This includes France(Arkose) and Austria(ÖTK-Halle). The only thing I don't like about the Munter is the twisting. If you don't pay special care in your technique, it will twist the shit out of your rope. |
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Tony B wrote: Great article Tony, unfortunately its a bit off topic. |
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kgray wrote: I thought that would be the hip. |