Draws taken off of Double Dragon, Chapel Wall, Yosemite valley

Ryan Kelley wrote:

This changes everything. Project was sent so the draws no longer have the “project” keyword and are now just normal draws.  

Therefore the person claimed legal booty.

My friend who I was climbing with was still projecting it and there’s no way the party stealing the draws would have known, and they stole what was pretty clearly project draws if you’ve ever sport climbed. 

i leave draws on sport routes all the time at sport crags too, like the RRG, because it's commonly accepted practice for crags like that. But if i left draws or gear on a route in the valley (i would never because, as far as i know, it's not a widely accepted practice), and they get taken, i would say "shit, here is a self reminder never to do that again here." I hope they are waiting for you at the ranger station though. 

It’s ok for Valley climbers to leave fixed lines....but project draws are off limits.

csproul wrote: It’s ok for Valley climbers to leave fixed lines....but project draws are off limits.

no i think you misunderstood - if anything i leave behind in the valley gets taken (project draws or fixed lines like you said), i would blame my own dumb luck and irresponsible behavior in the first place. it's not thievery if it's unwelcome behavior on pubic land - most climbers leave your project draws there alone out of courtesy, not legal obligation - don't confuse the two. 

Ryan Kelley wrote:

This changes everything. Project was sent so the draws no longer have the “project” keyword and are now just normal draws.  

Therefore the person claimed legal booty.

I want credit for fleshing this out and thickening the plot. Fair is fair

If climbers only left gear on routes in the Valley and not excrement, that would be a step in the right direction.

Christian: PM sent with (maybe) helpful info.

Maurice Chaunders wrote:

I want credit for fleshing this out and thickening the plot. Fair is fair

Well the plot has thickened even more. One half of the climbing party was still projecting the route so therefore only half the draws were project draws. That means that only half the draws should be returned!  

I hope the OP will get all the skeletons out of his closet regarding this philosophical debate so we can come to a final decision.  

I really think we are close to solving this culture problem once and for all!

Ryan Kelley wrote:

Well the plot has thickened even more. One half of the climbing party was still projecting the route so therefore only half the draws were project draws. That means that only half the draws should be returned!  

I hope the OP will get all the skeletons out of his closet regarding this philosophical debate so we can come to a final decision.  

I really think we are close to solving this culture problem once and for all!

Or cut the dogbones in half and return either the gear side or the rope side? Or maybe a Persephone-type deal - the draws live with the thief half the year, and are returned for the other half.

Christian Black wrote: ... 7 Petzl Ange draws....

Sounds like someone did you a favor, now you have an excuse to get some decent draws;)

^Yosemite is a National Park - Federal regs, not CA

e.g. Recreational weed, not allowed.

Fun Police wrote: The tables have turned against the fun police. Who’s having the fun now?

Climbing r serious stuff - no fun allowed. 

Izzy Nawfal wrote: Christian: PM sent with (maybe) helpful info.

Got em back with the info you sent me, thanks for the help and the helpful responses from everyone else.