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Does nobody understand BOOTY anymore?

Andrew Rice · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 11
Tom Sherman wrote: So just to clarify, the weathered piece, that was backwards in the crack and completely fuckwit (who uses a .1 at the anchor when there’s any type  nut placement you want as well as .5-3), that piece which I spent 35 mins removing to clean up the rock, bloodied my hand, expended tape, and almost lost my nut tool.... if I don’t get a full time job trying to find the owner, I’ve now stolen that?

Did someone actually SAY that? Or are you just making that up?

My understanding of this thread was that someone expressed befuddlement about people posting up "Help return my lost gear" requests on MP. Because he felt that said people had waived any claim they have to that gear by leaving it. Others (like me) said we think it's nice to return gear if you are able.

I don't think anyone proposed that you need to get a job doing it. Or that you're stealing if you don't. 

Bryan · · Minneapolis, MN · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 457
James Weiss wrote:

I don't trad climb, so I can understand that people leaving cams, nuts, or whatever stuck on a route is considered as litter. I'm almost with you on that, only because trad climbing is a different than sport climbing. You all want to place gear, and don't want some crack littered with stuck gear. So if someone bails on gear, the next guy taking it is in a way cleaning up their litter left behind. Is that stealing? I guess not. Unless you knew the other party was coming back to retrieve it or had a way to get it them. Or at least give them the option to get it from you. I don't think you have to break your back either in trying to find the rightful owner. IMO, consider it yours in that case. 

Project draws are different. Someone is leaving them with the intention of coming back later to climb and retrieve. Is it litter? If you think so, then so are all the bolts, anchors, permadraws, and chalk marks. Every climber is guilty of leaving a trace. Or at least use an anchor from someone who did. 

We're almost exclusively talking about trad gear and bail carabiners. Taking project draws is stealing.
Russ B · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 42
James Weiss wrote:

I don't trad climb.

We already knew that, from when ya had to spray you were climbing "7c" in thailand, and from when you demonstrated a complete lack of understand of the ethics of our sport that have been around since before you were born. 

Lon Harter · · Reno NV · Joined May 2018 · Points: 441

But we like it when sport climbers learn to climb trad we welcome you.

ARG... ME MATEY!  Avast ye there be new booty to be found!

x15x15 · · Use Ignore Button · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 275
James Weiss wrote:

I don't trad climb, <snip>

So you are a litterbug?!?!!!
Keith Wood · · Elko, NV · Joined May 2019 · Points: 480

I trad climb, but I've never thought of left gear as litter. That is a completely novel idea to me. If there's left gear, or even stuck perma-gear, it doesn't seem remotely similar to litter at the base. It's just a reality. I bring down what I can but think nothing of it if I can't.

Glowering · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 16
John Reeve wrote
I can always get more stuff, but there are limited opportunities for me to do nice things for other people.

Agreed. As I get older I get more pleasure out of doing a solid for someone else than getting something for myself. A single cam I probably wouldn’t go to the trouble but if I found a whole anchor someone spaced and forgot I’d put some time into tracking down the owner. 

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,374

Sheesh. Okay, I confess. So far, three different trips, I have found tent stakes, one each, per trip. I have shamelessly/shamefacedly added them to my collection of bent to hell ones that I futilely tried pounding in at Smith. ROCK. Including the camping.

Best, Helen the hopeless booty noob

EFS · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 160

Tom Sherman wrote: So just to clarify, the weathered piece, that was backwards in the crack and completely fuckwit (who uses a .1 at the anchor when there’s any type  nut placement you want as well as .5-3), that piece which I spent 35 mins removing to clean up the rock, bloodied my hand, expended tape, and almost lost my nut tool.... if I don’t get a full time job trying to find the owner, I’ve now stolen that?

love the guys who "spent 35 minutes bloodying themselves up, just to clean up the rock".......yeah, you did it to clean the rock, not to get the piece of gear for yourself.....
you should head to the gunks, there are tons of rammed in cams all over that wont budge. have at it, they need to be cleaned and are probably useless after you get them out. then ill believe youre wasting all that time just to clean the rock....

Mike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 30

I've taken a hacksaw blade up a route to clear old gear...

John Reeve · · Durango, formely from TX · Joined Nov 2018 · Points: 15
Mike wrote: I've taken a hacksaw blade up a route to clear old gear...

Yeah, but do you try to find the owner :D LOL

Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433

EFS I bet you are as assuming and accusatory in real life as you are on here. Did you read the word anchor? An-chor, as in belay ledge, as in staying there after a pitch. Bet you assumed I was climbing in a group of three also. Bet you assumed I worked on it while managing a top belay until my second showed up and then pridefully went full on when he could takeover the third. Bet you assumed that for me it was more about getting it out than obtaining the piece. Bet you assume a lot of things to push your feeble minded agenda. Like assumed I didn’t try to give it to my followers or that I even use that size piece on my rack. Cool bro, great debate, shit talk what I said in this one now too

Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

 I got chewed out for sawzalling out a mangled stuck cam in crux of a finger crack that I regularly solo.  (gear was in the way of an important jam) the owner wanted their cam back. it had been there several weeks and lots of effort put into cleaning it  by many folks with no luck.   as far as booty goes project draws are not booty. anything left from an accident or rescue is not booty.  stuff lost in the parkinglot is not booty. Gear stashes are not booty.  

 Booty is any gear lost due to the mountain kicking your butt that you have given up efforts to recover.   I once dropped a screw on the Black dike  and since I had intended to hike out rather than rap the route I refused the offer by a following party to accept the return of the booty screw.  I dropped it and had no intention of attempting to recover it therefor it was booty and belonged to the guys behind us.. had I intended to rap the route which is one of the standard decent options then the screw they picked up would not have been booty because I had not given up attempts at recovery at that point.  had I rapped the route, looked for the screw, not found the screw and given up attempts to find the screw the next people to find the screw would then  have found Booty :)

EFS · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 160
Tom Sherman wrote: EFS I bet you are as assuming and accusatory in real life as you are on here. Did you read the word anchor? An-chor, as in belay ledge, as in staying there after a pitch. Bet you assumed I was climbing in a group of three also. Bet you assumed I worked on it while managing a top belay until my second showed up and then pridefully went full on when he could takeover the third. Bet you assumed that for me it was more about getting it out than obtaining the piece. Bet you assume a lot of things to push your feeble minded agenda. Like assumed I didn’t try to give it to my followers or that I even use that size piece on my rack. Cool bro, great debate, shit talk what I said in this one now too

ok, if you insist......

trying to free booty while in the middle of belaying someone?  
Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433

Think you missed the word feeble this time around. But sure if this is the hill you want to die on, please entertain us

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Tom Sherman wrote: Think you missed the word feeble this time around. But sure if this is the hill you want to die on, please entertain us

You two! Get a room already!

Glen Prior · · Truckee, Ca · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

I managed to fix a .75 C4 on Knapsack Crack at the Leap. (Shame...) If you manage to booty it, of course it's yours, but I'll buy you a beer if you can tell me how you got it out. I went back the next day and spent an hour on it before calling it quits. I felt like I was abandoning a child...

Glen Prior · · Truckee, Ca · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

It's at the p1 belay...Right next to a fixed X4...

Lon Harter · · Reno NV · Joined May 2018 · Points: 441

Glen how long ago did you leave that C4? and which pitch?

ARggg!

Lon Harter · · Reno NV · Joined May 2018 · Points: 441

The first Pitch uses a tree for a anchor? you backed up the tree was there an other party on the ledge with you?  What day was this on?  I didn't see any fixed gear did that route last Friday.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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