Knot pass: Munter Overhand Feed-Through. Has anyone tried this?
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I am looking for a fast way to pass a knot while lowering a climber, that avoids using several releasable hitches and load transfers. (The end of the rope should be tied into the master point and not one one of the anchor points) Has anyone tried this? has a reliable source for this method? ThanksEDIT 22.10.19: I found a reference to this method in a manual from the Swiss Alpine Club (SAC). It is listed as an emergency variant of a knot pass, as the method will scuff the bend, but still "simple and functional" |
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Fran M wrote: I am looking for a fast way to pass a knot while lowering a climber, that avoids using several releasable hitches and load transfers. This works just fine. Haven't had to do it for real but I've practiced it when we were practicing knot passes. Another tool in the toolbox for sure but if I have a cord I'd probably opt to do the load transfer way. Maybe it isn't the FASTEST but if you practice it, it shouldn't take more than a few min to pass a knot. Hopefully I'll never be in a situation where the difference of 3min is gonna matter much. |
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A middle-ground would be to temporarily transfer the load to a klemheist-MMO, then pass the knot, then release the KMMO. No pop, no jamming shenanigans, only takes one knot (if you count a KMMO as one knot ;-). |
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mbk wrote: A middle-ground would be to temporarily transfer the load to a klemheist-MMO, then pass the knot, then release the KMMO. No pop, no jamming shenanigans, only takes one knot (if you count a KMMO as one knot ;-). ^^ yup, this is the load transfer way i was thinking of. |
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seems very hitch and knot specific... im a fan of the releasable hitch method myself... |
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mbk wrote: If you mean to feed the bend through the munter hitch manually while the "KMMO" is holding the load, that is also the least cumbersome way I found while playing around. instead of the KMMO, I used a tibloc and the rope for its MMO. But a a second prusik and catastrophe knot needs to be placed behind the bend and the previous prusik removed. The video does not show replacing the prusiks but would also be needed in that case. |
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Fran M wrote: why the c knot? |
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Fran M wrote: If you use a double-length dyneema sling, the KMMO is ridiculously fast. |
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mbk wrote: tying a friction hitch with dyneema? is that a thing? |
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Dillon Schwertz wrote: yup, and it works well...as long as you don't use a classic prussik. |
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curt86iroc wrote: what prusik do you use then? |
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Dillon Schwertz wrote:In case the KMMO fails and the third hand does not bite.
you mean an MMO at the belay loop behind the bend? and after feeding the bend, what? install a prusik and undo it? or undo the Munter at the master point and lower from it? too cumbersome |
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Dillon Schwertz wrote: you don't use a prussik. personally, i find a klemheist to work the best with a dyneema sling. |
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mbk wrote: Yes, but it was often too short on my attemps. And holding the dyneema break strand is not very comfortable. |
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curt86iroc wrote: ohhhh ok, i thought you were gonna teach me a prusik2.0 or something. thanks! |
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Fran M wrote: In case the KMMO fails and the third hand does not bite. Ah, usually i'm ok with 2 backups (kmmo and autoblock) |
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Dillon Schwertz wrote: Yeah, agree. Keep in mind though, the KMMO is not a backup. So you only have the autoblock, which could or could not bite. So Id argue a c knot is mandatory. |
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Interesting that this video should come out 3 years after my initial thread describing the EDK Munter pass-through. |
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The method shown in the video is great. Karsten is a great resource to follow. |
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Perhaps its the correct pronunciation but am I the only one to whom "mewnter" hitch just sounds like nails on a chalk board? (bringing important info to the discussion...you're welcome) |
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BGardner wrote: ...Look closely at the video. The distance travelled by the knot during the popping is closer to double that, and if the person being lowered is conscious, he will definitely notice it. No matter how much rope is out already, it will be stretched to its full stretch for the static load being held. Instantly releasing several inches of slack will instantly drop the person by that much plus some more because the sudden free-fall acceleration will cause additional stretching of the rope. That is why they recommend letting the person know the drop is coming. Now, if everything is good, a drop like this is no big deal and does not put the person or the rope in danger but in less ideal situations, it could be a problem. In any case, the video should include a warning never to do this with static cordage. |