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Mark Rolofson
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Aug 23, 2019
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jul 2010
· Points: 1,000
James Woods wrote: Cole you started this thread. I'm curious as to your response to the 20+ pages that have occurred after your original post. Perhaps this thread is a big part of the problem, that has broadcast the controversy in Ten Sleep too loudly & hyped it too much. Funky Town is a small part of Ten Sleep. The USFS banning bolts in Ten Sleep is huge. What next? It's amazing how climbers can't seem to get along. The Climbing community seems to be its own worst enemy. I'd recommend not starting another thread like this one & maybe deleting it.
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Frank Stein
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Aug 23, 2019
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Albuquerque, NM
· Joined Feb 2012
· Points: 205
I don’t think that Mark is defending Anderson. Nobody is. Mark’s point is that it may not have been in the community’s best interest to blow the whole thing up because of one guy, no matter how prolific he was, as there were probably better ways to handle this. The end result was a bolting ban for the entire Big Horn National Forest. How long before NF lands all over Wyoming etc. adopt this policy? Think about that.
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JNE
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Aug 23, 2019
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2006
· Points: 2,110
the schmuck wrote: Mark’s point is that it may not have been in the community’s best interest to blow the whole thing up because of one guy, no matter how prolific he was, as there were probably better ways to handle this. Please explain what a better way would have been, or shut up about the "better way". Thank you.
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Frank Stein
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Aug 23, 2019
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Albuquerque, NM
· Joined Feb 2012
· Points: 205
How about boycotting anderson’s business? Confronting him directly? Chop quietly? The locals I spoke to reported that the manufacturing stopped months before the chopping, padlocking and spraying this whole mess all over social media and to the forest service. I just don’t understand why some are all gung ho to literally burn the entire house down over this.
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JNE
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Aug 23, 2019
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2006
· Points: 2,110
the schmuck wrote: How about boycotting anderson’s business? Confronting him directly? Chop quietly? The locals I spoke to reported that the manufacturing stopped months before the chopping, padlocking and spraying this whole mess all over social media and to the forest service. I just don’t understand why some are all gung ho to literally burn the entire house down over this. Like as in agreeing that the forest service acted in an expected way in this situation? Me too... As far as your other suggestions, from following along I seem to recall that: 1) People were boycotting his business (and suggesting others do the same), but it was not expected to work out because he has the only non-primitive, non-hotel-priced, climbing specific accommodations in the canyon, and was therefore expected to be able to sustain his business via visiting climbers who may or may not want to be drawn into the whole thing just to go enjoy a climbing trip. 2) I believe he was confronted directly about this numerous times, even in publicly held meetings, but the situation did not resolve with him ceasing his actions despite a wide community concensus that his manufactured routes were way out of line. Are you suggesting that violence was in order? 3) Chop quietly. Yea, like that is a possible reality. You assume that Louies supporters and the BCC would have sat back and not done anything about that. I personally would not be confident making that assumption.
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Guy Keesee
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Aug 23, 2019
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Moorpark, CA
· Joined Mar 2008
· Points: 349
I like “The Southern Justice”..... and I wonder why all that sandstone is not all hacked to bits and those Granite domes have really long runouts? “Southern Justice” I like it. Sort of like “Valley Justice”
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Andy Bandos
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Aug 23, 2019
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CO
· Joined Aug 2013
· Points: 760
I'm currently on an extended trip to Ten Sleep. It's interesting talking to people at the crag since everyone has a different opinion. The common theme is nobody likes blatantly "heavy handed" cleaning/manufacturing of routes. However, no body likes to see red padlocks, chopped bolts or rocks re-glued into previously drilled holes.
Louie has already said his techniques won't be used moving forward. I think we all should too. 2018 -2019 will just be known as a dark time in TenSleep history that even crazier guidebooks with futuristic 4-D glasses will discuss.
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Jack Quarless
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Aug 23, 2019
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Feb 2011
· Points: 0
Hey ethical crusaders, please stop trying to set fire to our imperfect little house. Let's try a little more discreet and under the radar behavior. Not everyone likes your idea of a remodel anyway. Not one person is defending this weird gluing behavior, and blaming people is real sweet and all, but wouldn't you rather go climbing? A monument of public shame is a perfect conquence for people who are willing to wreck shit just to get their way. Now we have a public monument of shame that cuts multiple directions.
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M Mobley
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Aug 23, 2019
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Bar Harbor, ME
· Joined Mar 2006
· Points: 911
This whole boondoggle is like a hillbilly calling the cops cause someone broke into his house and stole his drugs.
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Not Trevor
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Aug 23, 2019
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Anywhere dry
· Joined Nov 2018
· Points: 17
the schmuck wrote: How about boycotting anderson’s business? Confronting him directly? Chop quietly? The locals I spoke to reported that the manufacturing stopped months before the chopping, padlocking and spraying this whole mess all over social media and to the forest service. I just don’t understand why some are all gung ho to literally burn the entire house down over this. Louie is a pretty personable guy and may fool some people into believing this. However I can assure you, with 100%, that as of mid-July 2019 Gluey was still up to his tricks. The difference is that he is doing it at some more obscure (read: not yet published) areas. Head up to the Ark and take a left if you don't believe me. As far as the first two suggestions: a. We would need to talk to gyms and larger corporations to boycott his business, I know the local gym I climb at has gone around Louie when ordering holds (i.e. if Louie is the US rep. the head setter has called the company and requested he not deal with him due to recent controversy). I agree with this, however, us keyboard warriors have little say in boycotting his Legacy Ascent company as very few of us are buying thousands of dollars worth of holds on the reg. b. He has been confronted peacefully, violently, calmly, logically by both peers as well as random folks. I have seen him in conversations about this matter with Eric Horst and others that Louie has known for some time now....none of which have done any good. c. I'm not sure you can chop quietly in ten sleep as those who climb the manufactured routes mostly stay at the RR and would surely notify him.....plus the whole man project and high profile situation it has devolved into...
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JNE
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Aug 23, 2019
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2006
· Points: 2,110
A Bandos wrote: I'm currently on an extended trip to Ten Sleep. It's interesting talking to people at the crag since everyone has a different opinion. The common theme is nobody likes blatantly "heavy handed" cleaning/manufacturing of routes. However, no body likes to see red padlocks, chopped bolts or rocks re-glued into previously drilled holes.
Louie has already said his techniques won't be used moving forward. I think we all should too. 2018 -2019 will just be known as a dark time in TenSleep history that even crazier guidebooks with futuristic 4-D glasses will discuss. Quick question: Are you staying at Louies rock ranch? If so, what kind of agreements are expected from you in order to be welcome there? Of those agreements, which do you hold to be true, and which do you agree to just to get along? Also, do you possibly think that the people saying they don't like seeing the chopped routes and padlocks might be placing the blame for that on Louie? In other words, do you think there is possibly a strong consensus that the actions which really need to be addressed are Louies actions, and his actions alone, and that therefore a blanket bolting ban as opposed to an individual fine is taking things a bit too far?
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Robert S
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Aug 23, 2019
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Driftwood, TX
· Joined Sep 2018
· Points: 654
m Mobes wrote: This whole boondoggle is like a hillbilly calling the cops cause someone broke into his house and stole his drugs. You just won the thread.
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Kevin DB
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Aug 24, 2019
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jul 2012
· Points: 295
James Woods wrote: Does the NFS in the RRG really have to police the impact that climbers have there or do the climbers there police themselves in the RRG? I am willing to bet that gluey luey didn't move from Southern California to the Red River Gorge because he was wise to the fact that he wouldn't be able to drill, glue and manufacture routes there. I'm pretty sure that the RRG climbers would take care of such actions with what would be locally known as "southern justice" in which gluey's actions would have been immediately stopped. So he went to Wyoming? Where everyone has guns and there is infinite land to bury a body?
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Nick Goldsmith
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Aug 24, 2019
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Pomfret VT
· Joined Aug 2009
· Points: 440
Hate to have to say this but a bolting ban was inevitable if you bring these kinds of problems to the attention of the forest service. This is precisely what I told the guy who announced that he was going to complain to the forest service several months ago..
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Not Trevor
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Aug 24, 2019
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Anywhere dry
· Joined Nov 2018
· Points: 17
Nick Goldsmith wrote: Hate to have to say this but a bolting ban was inevitable if you bring these kinds of problems to the attention of the forest service. This is precisely what I told the guy who announced that he was going to complain to the forest service several months ago.. Give me his name, first rounds on me.
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Not Trevor
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Aug 24, 2019
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Anywhere dry
· Joined Nov 2018
· Points: 17
Kevin DB wrote: So he went to Wyoming? Where everyone has guns and there is infinite land to bury a body? Wyoming ranchers are surprisingly smarter and more peaceful than meth’d out locals in KY
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Nick Goldsmith
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Aug 24, 2019
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Pomfret VT
· Joined Aug 2009
· Points: 440
thought he announced it here on Mp Defiantly on the cody climbing facebook page. they threw him off the facebook page which he had hijacked and made all about the Tensleep drama. they had to dismantle the FB page and start a new one. I don't remember his name just that he was all about how terrible manufactured routes are and that he was drafting a letter to the forest service. I flat out told him that if you do get the forest service involved it will result in loss of access. totally agree that the chipping and drilling, chopping and glueing was way out of hand . Also adamant that if you can't fix it in house you will seriously regret it.
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M Mobley
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Aug 24, 2019
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Bar Harbor, ME
· Joined Mar 2006
· Points: 911
Maybe Louie was just behind on the newest ethics of gluing and chipping, grid bolting and inviting the masses to come and trample NF land in the boonies?
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M Mobley
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Aug 24, 2019
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Bar Harbor, ME
· Joined Mar 2006
· Points: 911
Don't use too much glue, don't chisel too much, don't grid bolt everything and keep it a secret so it doesn't get trampled is really the true new green way right?
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Not Trevor
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Aug 24, 2019
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Anywhere dry
· Joined Nov 2018
· Points: 17
m Mobes wrote: Don't use too much glue, don't chisel too much, don't grid bolt everything and keep it a secret so it doesn't get trampled is really the true new green way right? What are you even saying dude? Lol
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