Rappelling accident using Mad Rock belay device.

Glad the dude didn't pancake...damn, he must've been wigging by the time he went thru the tree.

They should hire an outside expert to do the AAR/analysis....

I tried that exact sewn-cord back-up thingy in the photo. I found it too short and the sewn section too wide to be very useful. Especially with a four-wrap prussik, I can't imagine a) how that thing didn't bite and b) being able to create a working four-wrap prussik with it (it's too short?)..maybe b answers my a....dunno, maybe that contributed?

Glad the dude's alive. Woh. Large man with a pack on a single strand.....I'd prob recommend extending, too, and having that prussik on his belay loop, rather than the leg.

Bill Lawry wrote:From their FB page - Wolfe County Search & Rescue Team: We believe the Chief Might have clamped down on the autobloc once his rapid descent began which is a natural but incorrect action. His memory of most of the rapid decent is vague from his concussion  ...

This accident could be a case where a third hand below the device was defeated by grip. I had previously assumed that was just an issue for hitch above the device since a firm grip below should simply brake.  

And I’ll hasten to concede that the device and rope may have been inadequate for the load ... ~270 pounds.

Perhaps the primary take away is to not assume a third hand is going to make up for a marginal / inadequate setup?

As mentioned, the leg wrap is an easily available safety procedure regardless of device, but can definitely be difficult to execute in free hang while moving.   Had to do it myself when I did a single strand 8.5 mm rap on an original Reverso off the Grand.  Expected it to be a bit spicy, but holy crap, thought I was gonna zip right off down the Black Ice Couloir till I got my leg around it

Add to the 'everybody should know' list a technique referred to as 'the fireman's belay' where a person on the ground pulls on the rap line with sufficient force to spike the friction on the rapper's device, causing the rapper to halt. Try it out...extremely effective. Obviously care must be taken to not get hurt from falling anything when in the landing zone.

Leg wrap, extra rap biner, fireman's belay. Simple.

I have done raps before where when rigging it I thought there was enough friction in the system but during the beginning of rap there was not. However, well before things got out of control I have realized there was going to an issue (as the friction decreases as one descends), stopped the rappel, and wrapped the rope around my leg. As such, I might also add that an additional cause would be "inexperience."

Allen Sanderson wrote: I have done raps before where when rigging it I thought there was enough friction in the system but during the beginning of rap there was not. However, well before things got out of control I have realized there was going to an issue (as the friction decreases as one descends), stopped the rappel, and wrapped the rope around my leg. As such, I might also add that an additional cause would be "inexperience."

Dumb questions, but hey, that's what noobs are good at, eh? Does it matter how you wrap a rope around a leg? The one time I tried, just to stop and hang full weight, it wasn't workable.

Question two, I have tied prussiks, and always assumed that if the wrap is holding my weight, at the start, I'm good to go? I've used them to ascend, reverse the ascend, double and single ropes and feel fairly confident about getting those wraps right. Is there a "gotcha" I need to know about?

Thinking about ATCs heating up, does rap speed make any difference, or would the length of the rap make the same heat, fast or slow? I'm slow on raps, walk down, no rocketing.

For those who use a grigri on a single line rap, how would you test it before launching? Have enough slack in your tether to lower a bit?

Last, I'm assuming a tandem rap needs lots more friction? I'm sorta surprised the Chief wasn't thinking about weight, since SAR stuff is always uber redundant and much more tuned to loads (zero offense meant, Chief!).

Truly sorry for the Chief's accident. I'm glad they dug into it thoroughly.

Thanks! Helen

Much noob speculation that ignores the fact that at high speeds prussiks fail (if the panicked climber can even let go).

Fundamentally it's a case of inexperience with this device, with that rope, with these loads.

Being larger than you average bear I am all too aware how this could happen and have had narrow escapes... Rappel devices are designed for the flyweight division...not the super heavies.

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote: Much noob speculation that ignores the fact that at high speeds prussiks fail (if the panicked climber can even let go).

Fundamentally it's a case of inexperience with this device, with that rope, with these loads.

Being larger than you average bear I am all too aware how this could happen and have had narrow escapes... Rappel devices are designed for the flyweight division...not the super heavies.

Well, yeah, weight matters. The weight they are talking about, 270+, is in range of a tandem rap, with us "flyweights", lol! Even more critical, maybe, to know to add friction? Especially if you were the 110 rescuing the 160 friend, and hardly ever wanted more friction?

There is a plus, here. Betcha the training gets upped, and the systems reviewed. But, my understanding of SAR, is they assume loads way heavier than usual. This is clearly an "oops". If it can happen to these people, the rest of us shouldn't get complacent with what we do, either.

Best, Helen

Ideal weight for a 6 foot 3 inch male bodybuilder is 230 pounds. That’s for ideal weight.

 I also think the efforts to shunt off beginner questions to ground about this is more than a disservice - boarding on irresponsibility. Someone can be at a normal healthy weight and still get into trouble depending on device and rope diameter ... as many others have mentioned already.

Old lady H wrote: 

Does it matter how you wrap a rope around a leg? The one time I tried, just to stop and hang full weight, it wasn't workable.

I have not leg wrapped as part of slowing / easing the descent.  

If a rap seems not easy to control -  it usually means I failed to prevent the problem in the first place by, say, adding a similar biner to the rap device.  For these cases, I usually clip the brake strand into a biner on my leg loop and then brake upward. Some clip again above the device for more friction and brake dir is back to downward  of course.  Note that gloves are nice for this and a third hand might interfere. 

Another option may be simply to wrap the brake strand around your back and brake with the other hand. Though, again, a third hand may interfere.

I’m sure others have other techniques they have used.

Question two, I have tied prussiks, and always assumed that if the wrap is holding my weight, at the start, I'm good to go? I've used them to ascend, reverse the ascend, double and single ropes and feel fairly confident about getting those wraps right. Is there a "gotcha" I need to know about?

Am probably not the person to answer as I generally do not trust it will reliably catch in a surprise fall (a.k.a. “gotcha” :) ).

Bill Lawry wrote: Ideal weight for a 6 foot 3 inch bodybuilder is 230 pounds. That’s for ideal weight.

 I also think the efforts to shunt off beginner questions to ground about this is more than a disservice - boarding on irresponsibility. Someone can be at a normal healthy weight and still get into trouble depending on device and rope diameter ... as many have mentioned already.

The noob questions should definitely be answered as they come up - that is critical! It causes major drift but the point of these threads is to learn. Your disclaimer about weight is nice and shows sensitivity. However, the post above yours is flat out, dead on accurate. Just replace, "too fat" with, "too heavy" and it's the best summary of this accident in the whole thread. 

-Was the autoblock tied improperly? It appears so.
-Should extra, or different biners been used? Yes and they were not.
-Would a leg wrap (or three) have helped? Immensely!

All good points - that YOU should know about and have in your bag of tricks.

However, the guys was too heavy for the setup, period. That is the beginning and end of it. Being correctly connected is NOT the same thing as "rigged properly". He was never rigged properly because the system was not adequate for his needs.

100% user error - 0% fault Mad Rock (stupid fucking thread name BTW)

Fireman's belay: he was the heaviest, was expected to be experienced and know what he was doing, and thus thus the obvious choice for the first one to rap. This is standard practice in the Alpine world (it allows the rappel anchor to be backed up and "tested" by the heavier climber). Unless you are an exceptional trainer of marmots there is no one down there to give a fireman's belay. Will they consider not having him rap first on a single line now? Yes they will. If you know your anchor is bomber and you are on a single strand with a heavy partner perhaps the lighter person rapping first makes good sense. Point is that the existing ethos is that the heaviest should rap first provided they understand how to rappel, know where to go, etc. Time to change that? Unlikely, but maybe worth considering.

Old lady H wrote: Thinking about ATCs heating up, does rap speed make any difference ... ?

Haven't measured, but based on physics - yes, absolutely.

Old lady H wrote:

Does it matter how you wrap a rope around a leg? The one time I tried, just to stop and hang full weight, it wasn't workable.

I go from the outside, down behind my thigh, up between my legs, then across to the outside. Two wraps will stop me, three for no hands.

Question two, I have tied prussiks, and always assumed that if the wrap is holding my weight, at the start, I'm good to go? I've used them to ascend, reverse the ascend, double and single ropes and feel fairly confident about getting those wraps right. Is there a "gotcha" I need to know about?

Depends, it may be fine for a static stop but may not for a dynamic stop.

Thinking about ATCs heating up, does rap speed make any difference, or would the length of the rap make the same heat, fast or slow? I'm slow on raps, walk down, no rocketing.

Slowly rapping will generate less heat.

For those who use a grigri on a single line rap, how would you test it before launching? Have enough slack in your tether to lower a bit?

What is a grigri. For any system one should fully weight it before releasing their tether.

Last, I'm assuming a tandem rap needs lots more friction? I'm sorta surprised the Chief wasn't thinking about weight, since SAR stuff is always uber redundant and much more tuned to loads (zero offense meant, Chief!).

For a tandem rap usually each person has their own device. If using a single device for both, lots of friction is needed.

Nobody disagrees with Tradiban’s or Scott’s points.  Only issue is that they are all after the fact obvious or not applicable (fireman’s).

Most accidents result from a compound of fuck ups. The key is to recognize and correct the first fuckup (incorrect rig for the system) quickly by diving into a deeper skill set.  

The takeaway from threads like this is that first order fuckups are easy to make - even for the trained and experienced.   What separates an injured person from just a good story, is their ability to stop a fuck up in its tracks.  

Ideally in this case, he would’ve quickly noticed the “whoa, this is not as expected” moment, activated his Prusik, put in a few leg wraps, and then mosied on down the rope.....for whatever reason, the situation just kept accelerating.  Literally.  

Now, after the fact, even he agrees with Tradiban and won’t do that again.

Allen Sanderson wrote: For a tandem rap usually each person has their own device. If using a single device for both, lots of friction is needed.

Simul rap has each climber on their own device on their own strand, each a counterweight to the other. Tandem rap is two climbers on one device.

Just an observation but, if the guy did not extend his rap device and used an autoblock to leg loop it can, and has caused,  autoblocks to get sucked into the device and negate the belay device once he sits fully in the harness with legs off the wall plus negates the autoblock. I believe we have lost a few climbers this way--FE

mpech wrote: title of the post is misleading, implies that there is something wrong with mad rock belay devices. A relatively heavy dude was doing a single-line rap, didn't have adequate friction and lost control. 

that's pretty much the deal in a nutshell....

Allen Sanderson wrote:...stopped the rappel, and wrapped the rope around my leg...

Yes - this is what I've done in weird, single rope rappels or on super skinny ropes to introduce more friction. Works very well. 

Mark Pilate wrote: Nobody disagrees with Tradiban’s or Scott’s points.  Only issue is that they are all after the fact obvious or not applicable (fireman’s).

Most accidents result from a compound of fuck ups. The key is to recognize and correct the first fuckup (incorrect rig for the system) quickly by diving into a deeper skill set.  

The takeaway from threads like this is that first order fuckups are easy to make - even for the trained and experienced.   What separates an injured person from just a good story, is their ability to stop a fuck up in its tracks.  

Ideally in this case, he would’ve quickly noticed the “whoa, this is not as expected” moment, activated his Prusik, put in a few leg wraps, and then mosied on down the rope.....for whatever reason, the situation just kept accelerating.  Literally.  

Now, after the fact, even he agrees with Tradiban and won’t do that again.

I agree, my comments are cherry-picked from after-the-fact and obvious analysis.

Your point about first order fuckups is very important. The whole thing boils down to the rappel system he chose to use. It seems like an honest enough mistake to me. Maybe the weight of the rope added just enough friction that everything checked out at the top? Regardless of the answer he didn't get the friction he needed as he was rigged. A leg wrap or two would have helped - that's a good takeaway from this. 

I would urge everyone to strongly consider extending your rappel. Rope management, leg wrapping, auto-blocking, and mobility are either easier or improved.  If you have a sling/diasy/PAS pre-rigged on your harness it takes zero extra time to extend your rappel.

If you are extendingy your rappel: autoblock from your belay loop. Use a long enough sling/cord/hollowblock to connect to the rope and belay loop with ~6-8 inches of cord between them*. This allows you to manipulate the rope more freely, makes it easier to check the autoblock before committing to the rappel (IMO), gives you the option of additional wraps around the rope, and gives your free hand a "tail" to "activate" the autoblock. For those reasons I use and recommend the longer length (19 inch) hollowblock.

*Always make sure there is enough physical distance between your autoblock and your belay device that they cannot touch. If not extending your rappel use your leg loop for your autoblock, the shorter length hollowblock (13.5 inch) is better for this. 

ABB wrote:

Simul rap has each climber on their own device on their own strand, each a counterweight to the other. Tandem rap is two climbers on one device.

I brought up tandem, because that's how I can see a light climber quickly getting into trouble with too much weight. The OP total weight is easily two climbers. And, if that's what you're trying? You are probably in an "ah shit" scenario already. Do I want to try and get my 150 pound friend attached to my line, with me? Not really. But if I have to? Yeah, start thinking how to up the odds of it working. 

I know, from my own minor oopses, that tiny, random bits of information are sometimes very, very, helpful, even in a quite different application. I'm not going to have every answer dialed....but I may not need to.

Besides, this stuff is a fun mental exercise anyway. Lots easier to work out possibilities.while pondering which ice cream to buy, than when your best friend has a compound fracture.

Thanks all, for all the answers up stream. I'm not the only one who reads these things!

Best, Helen