Thinking about leading Open Book @ Tahquitz

Matt Himmelstein wrote:

No, it WAS the standard 5.9 in the YDS.  With all the mileage it has had, it is polished quite a bit.

I am sorry. I would hardly say open book is "polished"

Also, please tell me why is "was" the standard and which climb is the new standard for 5.9? I am curious.

master gumby wrote:

I am sorry. I would hardly say open book is "polished"

Also, please tell me why is "was" the standard and which climb is the new standard for 5.9? I am curious.

Its the red route in the back corner of PRG.

Jon Hillis wrote:

Can we get OP to pass a psych eval to make sure he is up to this climb? Also I don't think he has up to date physical test qualifications. OP pls post a video of you crack climbing and we will evaluate and then you know if you're allowed on OB yet... 

This forum cracks me up, everyone is so busy looking out to keep others "safe". Go climb and have fun. Good luck OP! 

The OP asked for advice. Are you saying that we shouldn't give our respective $0.02?  

Camron, I get where you're coming from.  I have had some long breaks from climbing due to injuries, family, work, etc.  It is funky getting back into it and feeling comfortable again.  Haven't done El Whampo but Fingertrip is a really mellow in comparison.  Traitor Horn is a fun route but the crux is really just a relatively short, weird move, not a long sustained crack pitch.  Others have suggested some good 5.8s.  Hop on those.  You'll have fun.  If they feel OK, go for it.  

Matt Himmelstein wrote:

No, it WAS the standard 5.9 in the YDS.  With all the mileage it has had, it is polished quite a bit.

I have not done Coffin Nail, but Traitor Horn is not a warm up or gauge for Open Book.

Are you factoring in the gym shoe footwear, the waist tie, no chalk, the meagre protection, and the hip belay Robbins used? I'll take the polished super protected classic over the cannot fall leap into the unknown at the limit of the rating system.

• if* Traitor horn is scary lol

master gumby wrote:

I am sorry. I would hardly say open book is "polished"

Also, please tell me why is "was" the standard and which climb is the new standard for 5.9? I am curious.

Because I think with traffic, it has only gotten harder.

master gumby wrote: which climb is the new standard for 5.9? I am curious.

Grades are relative, not absolute. The standard for 5.9 is all the 5.8 climbs and all the 10a climbs.

The only standard for a grade is that it is harder than lower grades and easier than higher grades.

Matt Himmelstein wrote:

Because I think with traffic, it has only gotten harder.

No way. We have all the advantages of new gear/hardware. 

There's hardly any section on that climb that relies on the friction of the rock in its entirety besides the 5.6 slab moves on the 3rd pitch. You are jamming almost the entirety of the route. This isn't a slab route that has gotten polished by excessive TRing (take for example Bacon Bits, Winter Solstice, Arcy Farcy on the Buttress of Cracks). 

Also, which 5.9 is this excessively harder than at Tahquitz at Suicide? Seems on par with DD, Whodunit, Flower, etc. 

Chris Owen wrote:

Are you factoring in the gym shoe footwear, the waist tie, no chalk, the meagre protection, and the hip belay Robbins used? I'll take the polished super protected classic over the cannot fall leap into the unknown at the limit of the rating system.

All that applies equally to every climb.  I have nothing but respect for the guys who did these lines back in the day.  Modern stuff made everything easier, and allowed folks to push the limits to what were once unimagined heights.  When Open Book went up, it was the standrd for what a 5.9 climb was.  Mileage on the route only makes it harder.  Modern gear made it more accessible, but it didn't downgrade the rating vs anything else.

Thomas Claiborne wrote:

No way. We have all the advantages of new gear/hardware. 

There's hardly any section on that climb that relies on the friction of the rock in its entirety besides the 5.6 slab moves on the 3rd pitch. You are jamming almost the entirety of the route. This isn't a slab route that has gotten polished by excessive TRing (take for example Bacon Bits, Winter Solstice, Arcy Farcy on the Buttress of Cracks). 

Also, which 5.9 is this excessively harder than at Tahquitz at Suicide? Seems on par with DD, Whodunit, Flower, etc. 

I have not done DD or Flower, but I would call this harder than Whodunnit or Consolation.

Matt Himmelstein wrote:

I have not done DD or Flower, but I would call this harder than Whodunnit or Consolation.

I'd say the slab and exit move on the chimney on Whodunit is right on par with the hardest moves on open book? What do you say?

Consolation, I'd be inclined to agree with you there. Really only 15 feet on the double cracks and on hand/fist jam at the roof. The rest of the climb checks in around 5.7 imo.

I'd encourage you to try flower and report back on whether you think OB is still stout for the grade.

Debating the rating of OB. Bravo gentleman, bravo.

If someone re-built OB in a gym, move for move, would it still be 5.9 or would it become gym-soft?

Kyle vH wrote: If someone re-built OB in a gym, move for move, would it still be 5.9 or would it become gym-soft?

Not sure, as "gym" ratings vary so much from gym to gym, and perhaps more importantly, have little correlation to actual outdoor climbing.

But, it would have to be a Very Tall gym to fit a route as long as Open Book!

I actually laughed about the so-called polish from foot traffic. Super funny.

Otherwise, very enjoyable thread, with some pretty spot on advice. Keep up the good work everyone.

Randy wrote:

Not sure, as "gym" ratings vary so much from gym to gym, and perhaps more importantly, have little correlation to actual outdoor climbing.

But, it would have to be a Very Tall gym to fit a route as long as Open Book!

Maybe it could be built in miniature, like those little cities they use for VFX work.

Just do flower across the street, no need for #4s there

Tradiban wrote: The first time I brought a #6. I've done it 15 times.

15 timez!?!!!? That's all? And to think, you like to call yerself a local. More like loco...

x15x15 wrote: 15 timez!?!!!? That's all? And to think, you like to call yerself a local. More like loco...

Lol, I'm totally guessing, probably more actually, stopped ticking awhile ago.

Tradiban wrote:

Lol, I'm totally guessing, probably more actually, stopped ticking awhile ago.

Totally know what you mean brahji, I stopped ticking it back in '91...

x15x15 wrote:

Totally know what you mean brahji, I stopped ticking it back in '91...

It's just one if those climbs that every visiting climber wants to do, and it's good! So I end up on it often. 

Got to hit it early or late, otherwise is bakes, can't believe no one has mentioned this yet?!