Tom Randall & Pete Whitaker Onsight Kill Artist

BillS wrote: 12b - like seriously?  You are one of them!

Haha yeah I’ve never tried a 12c sport:) crimping just isn’t my thing. 
Well this conversation is getting pretty pointless, I think you’re right that I have no authority to say distinctively what the grade is, and it very well could be 13+. I honestly wouldn’t care if it were 11b or 14b, it’s just a really rad route. Someday hopefully we’ll get further consensus on the grade, but until then this armchair speculation looks really pointless. Why don’t you guys just go climb the route? 

Alkaline Climper wrote:Climbing - emasculating men since around 1992?

“Honestly, does this sling make my rack look big?”

Just jumping in here to point out that both Cobra Crack and Century Crack abbreviate to "CC," so we can all agree that CC is harder than CC.

Danny Parker wrote:

Gabriel, Forever War and 8oz ... which are known as the benchmarks around 13Cish. 

I have no comment on the first two other than to say the justification for their grades is shakier than the justification for the grade on CC. As for 8oz., I originally called that v8, which would compare to a bouldery 13- route. It's at v9 since Tom failed on it, but v8 works fine too. It felt a solid grade harder than Tripmaster Monkey.

Ya'll a bunch of fucking nerds. 

Yo...when does “on sight” apply to “studying the video” and then giving it a try!  Not John Long’s definition( his book) Not Adam Ondra’s (enormocast)
 
Why not have your videographer clean the holds and pre-place the gear too. 

While we are in the subject of crack climbing, does anyone have the beta for Supercrack? I hear it got chopped the other day to prevent controversy. 

Parker Wrozek wrote:

I wouldn't say that is why. The FA did it one way and suggested the grade. Someone finds new beta means the grade goes down. It doesn't mean that the FA is wrong about how they did it at that moment. I don't really see an issue, if you miss the beta, you miss the beta. I can't comment on her beta being a 13 move though, this can apply to a 5.11 that is actually a 5.9. 

Most underrated comment. Really sums up the entire event without making either party look bad.

JNE wrote:

I have no comment on the first two other than to say the justification for their grades is shakier than the justification for the grade on CC. As for 8oz., I originally called that v8, which would compare to a bouldery 13- route. It's at v9 since Tom failed on it, but v8 works fine too. It felt a solid grade harder than Tripmaster Monkey.

So basically the entire US OW "scene" is in on the conspiracy to overgrade routes, with PSP as the ringleader, and you are the lone whistleblower. I actually dig it.

Wideboyz must have been drinking the koolaid back in 2011 when they graded CC, but now they're turning their backs on PSP with heartless downgrades. Once they finish calling all her routes 5.11 they can call CC 5.12 like it's supposed to be.

nathanael wrote:

So basically the entire US OW "scene" is in on the conspiracy to overgrade routes, with PSP as the ringleader, and you are the lone whistleblower. I actually dig it.

Wideboyz must have been drinking the koolaid back in 2011 when they graded CC, but now they're turning their backs on PSP with heartless downgrades. Once they finish calling all her routes 5.11 they can call CC 5.12 like it's supposed to be.

More true than most would admit.

Whether you’re talking about Tiger Woods, PSP, Lance Armstrong* or Donald Trump**. If you consider that maybe only 25% of what they say about them is true, well, you’ve still got a problem.

*Disclaimer, PSP is not an athlete on the level of those mentioned.

{edited out by admin}

Dudes on MP arguing about the grade of a route they will never be strong enough to climb..

"tHe LaYbAcK iS oNlY LIkE 5.11+ tHo..."

So I’ve had my fair share of being salty at PSP for inviting me to do routes and then bailing, but at the end of the day it comes down to this:

She’s a real person and deserves the same respect we should afford to anyone. Downgrading her routes and danger ratings is perfectly acceptable when done with civility as Tom and Pete did. Downgrading her routes with a slurry of gutter-level invective and ad hominems, and casting unsupported public aspersions upon her character and veracity, is poor form.

The PSP acolytes and haters both need to get some perspective and remember the words of our own SPrice a couple years ago.

We named this baby gote after PSP because they both have a great deal of heart and audacity. (Shantigote immediately learned how to squeeze through the fence and make a break for the wild alfalfa in our fields). Soon she will move to the mountains and begin her new life as a “pack” gote.

I hope you get outside and have a great day, everyone.

Fair enough. I’ve always been in the anti PSP camp, I figured me and Justin were the only ones for a while. No skin off my nose, all the best things that have happened in my life have been since I distanced myself from her. It put the hard offwidths I’ve done in perspective, ie, they absolutely don’t matter.

FWIW, JNE may be the most qualified person on the planet to critique OW grades, eccentricities aside.

There is a level of satisfaction to be sure, to start hearing from others the things I’ve kept to myself for years and the same things Justin would tell anyone who would listen.

It’s kinda like Eddie the Eagle, just because you’re the only one, it doesn’t mean you’re an olympian.

I’ll be so happy when someone repeats Crumbling Reality. Downgrade away.

Whatever, I can still pantomime Bellyful but would probably be fried after Bunny Slope these days.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: Fair enough. I’ve always been in the anti PSP camp....

i seem to recall a time that you were pretty entrenched in the pro-PSP camp.... :)

Fritz :-) wrote: 
The PSP acolytes and haters both need to get some perspective and remember the words of our own SPrice a couple years ago.

This right here...he wrote the greatest thing I have ever read on this site. 

Anyone happen to know how he's doing? Haven't heard from him in a while.

Fritz :-) wrote: So I’ve had my fair share of being salty at PSP for inviting me to do routes and then bailing, but at the end of the day it comes down to this:

She’s a real person and deserves the same respect we should afford to anyone. Downgrading her routes and danger ratings is perfectly acceptable when done with civility as Tom and Pete did. Downgrading her routes with a slurry of gutter-level invective and ad hominems, and casting unsupported public aspersions upon her character and veracity, is poor form.

The PSP acolytes and haters both need to get some perspective and remember the words of our own SPrice a couple years ago.

We named this baby gote after PSP because they both have a great deal of heart and audacity. (Shantigote immediately learned how to squeeze through the fence and make a break for the wild alfalfa in our fields). Soon she will move to the mountains and begin her new life as a “pack” gote.

I hope you get outside and have a great day, everyone.

"Pack" gote : )

Dallin Carey wrote:

This right here...he wrote the greatest thing I have ever read on this site. 

Anyone happen to know how he's doing? Haven't heard from him in a while.

Last I checked, his account was abandoned.

Dallin Carey wrote:

This right here...he wrote the greatest thing I have ever read on this site. 

Anyone happen to know how he's doing? Haven't heard from him in a while.

It would be nice to know. 2 years ago I met him in a bar in PS. He has a climbing tattoo on his arm so I struck up a conversation. Turned me on to a great builder for my house. Wanted to climb with him but he was pretty beat down at the time with chemo. Local climbers call him the Godfather of Piedra. Sad to see he is no longer on MP. Hoping for good news if anyone knows anything.

Dallin Carey wrote:

This right here...he wrote the greatest thing I have ever read on this site. 

Anyone happen to know how he's doing? Haven't heard from him in a while.

Steve and I correspond via email, and he's going to be on the podcast this fall. He and his wife and 2row are currently living on a boat in the Pacific. He says the stars at night are beyond description. They're having a great time, sounds like.